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I am neither an Apple lover or an Apple hater. I think Apple produces extremely well polished products thanks to their vertical integration and have innovated i

I am neither an Apple lover or an Apple hater. I think Apple produces extremely well polished products thanks to their vertical integration and have innovated in hardware pushing the frontier, especially with the ARM suites. However, they also have a fairly closed ecosystem in which they are trying to overprice things when they can abusing their dominant position. I would feel sad to contribute to its success but I also selfishly really need the best tool available.

sbuk 4y ago
> However, they also have a fairly closed ecosystem in which they are trying to overprice things when they can abusing their dominant position. They have ~16% of the global market. In no way do they have a dominant position.
- rubenfiszel 4y ago
  Not wanting to start an anti-apple thread but I meant dominant position in their closed garden. Is that an abuse or not, I'll let the litigators decide.
smith7018 4y ago
Apple's computers are actually quite competitive when comparing price-to-performance. Beyond that, they have great build quality, battery life, components, and support which all adds up to being a great package for their cost. Seriously, this whole "Apple is too expensive" talking point died long ago. When the MacBook Air first came out, it was $1,800 ($2,500 adjusted for inflation) with a slow Intel C2D proc. Now you can get an M1 MacBook Air for $1k or an M2 for $1,200.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  The base models are reasonably competitive. But if you want to upgrade anything then they become extortionate.
- nightski 4y ago
  I'd argue price/performance is where they are the weakest. Especially when you want more than the bare minimum ram or ssd. An Apple replacement for my current notebook would cost over $5k and I spent a fraction of that. Battery life is really the core differentiator at the moment.
  - slikrick 4y ago
    meanwhile new 4000 series laptops are routinely costing more than MacBook pros, apple is winning the price/performance category in every style of laptop, as much as you may not like it.
  - wtallis 4y ago
    > An Apple replacement for my current notebook would cost over $5k and I spent a fraction of that. What if you price out a replacement with the full RAM and SSD capacity you want from the OEM rather than as an aftermarket upgrade? I think the problem usually is not so much "Apple over-charges for upgrades" as it is "all OEMs over-charge for upgrades", with a side of "Apple uses non-upgradable storage".
    - tadbit 4y ago
      > What if you price out a replacement with the full RAM and SSD capacity you want from the OEM rather than as an aftermarket upgrade? Moot point. Of course if you tie your hands behind your back your options will be limited. The point, for the parent, is that they aren't limited by insane markup pricing.
      - wtallis 4y ago
        It's important to correctly identify the underlying problem and whatever tradeoffs are involved. It's unproductive to bitch specifically about Apple's expensive storage and memory upgrades when it's actually an industry norm. It might be more fruitful to discuss why OEMs in general are able to get away with such steep upgrade pricing, and it's definitely more interesting and appropriate for HN to debate the pros and cons of Apple's soldered memory and storage.

sbuk 4y ago

> However, they also have a fairly closed ecosystem in which they are trying to overprice things when they can abusing their dominant position. They have ~16% of the global market. In no way do they have a dominant position.

rubenfiszel 4y ago
Not wanting to start an anti-apple thread but I meant dominant position in their closed garden. Is that an abuse or not, I'll let the litigators decide.

smith7018 4y ago

Apple's computers are actually quite competitive when comparing price-to-performance. Beyond that, they have great build quality, battery life, components, and support which all adds up to being a great package for their cost. Seriously, this whole "Apple is too expensive" talking point died long ago. When the MacBook Air first came out, it was $1,800 ($2,500 adjusted for inflation) with a slow Intel C2D proc. Now you can get an M1 MacBook Air for $1k or an M2 for $1,200.

nicoburns 4y ago
The base models are reasonably competitive. But if you want to upgrade anything then they become extortionate.
nightski 4y ago
I'd argue price/performance is where they are the weakest. Especially when you want more than the bare minimum ram or ssd. An Apple replacement for my current notebook would cost over $5k and I spent a fraction of that. Battery life is really the core differentiator at the moment.
- slikrick 4y ago
  meanwhile new 4000 series laptops are routinely costing more than MacBook pros, apple is winning the price/performance category in every style of laptop, as much as you may not like it.
- wtallis 4y ago
  > An Apple replacement for my current notebook would cost over $5k and I spent a fraction of that. What if you price out a replacement with the full RAM and SSD capacity you want from the OEM rather than as an aftermarket upgrade? I think the problem usually is not so much "Apple over-charges for upgrades" as it is "all OEMs over-charge for upgrades", with a side of "Apple uses non-upgradable storage".
  - tadbit 4y ago
    > What if you price out a replacement with the full RAM and SSD capacity you want from the OEM rather than as an aftermarket upgrade? Moot point. Of course if you tie your hands behind your back your options will be limited. The point, for the parent, is that they aren't limited by insane markup pricing.
    - wtallis 4y ago
      It's important to correctly identify the underlying problem and whatever tradeoffs are involved. It's unproductive to bitch specifically about Apple's expensive storage and memory upgrades when it's actually an industry norm. It might be more fruitful to discuss why OEMs in general are able to get away with such steep upgrade pricing, and it's definitely more interesting and appropriate for HN to debate the pros and cons of Apple's soldered memory and storage.