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> You severely underestimate how concentrated bitcoin ownership is. A couple of hundred people would control a significant proportion of the global economy just

by hbrn 4y ago

> You severely underestimate how concentrated bitcoin ownership is. A couple of hundred people would control a significant proportion of the global economy just because they were lucky Why don't you share the numbers then, what is significant in your mind? I can make the exact same claim about the current state of affairs. As far as I know, there are no privately owned wallets holding more than 0.5% of BTC.

qwytw 4y ago
> Why don't you share the numbers then, what is significant in your mind IIRC there are no numbers. Because nobody really knows who owns what. Also if you had huge amounts of bitcoin why on earth would you hold all of it in single wallet? Makes no sense... > privately owned wallets holding more than 0.5% of BTC. Which is an astronomically huge amount for a private individual to own in case BTC replaces dollars. Even if we only count actual dollars bills in circulation that 0.5% of that would be 10.5 billion. What private person could have that much cash stored somewhere? And most importantly why? If we include entire M1 supply (bills + deposits) 0.5% would be equal to 100 BILLION dollars. That's not an amount that can exist in a single place in USD, no single person does or ever did own such an amount in liquid assets which he could sell transfer the proceeds to someone in a short period of time. That's not really possible.
- hbrn 4y ago
  > no single person does or ever did own such an amount in liquid assets which he could sell transfer the proceeds to someone in a short period of time You seem to be confusing three similar, but fundamentally different things: physical cash, liquid assets, and being able to transfer in short period of time. Just because billionaire's assets are illiquid, it doesn't mean they can't transfer $10B in a short period of time. It simply means that portion of value will be lost during that transfer. > What private person could have that much cash stored somewhere? And most importantly why? Elon had $20B in cash (i.e. liquid assets) after selling 10% of his Tesla shares. He lost some value in the process, but afterwards he had $20B of liquid assets, which debunks your statement. Arguably, same will happen to $10B of BTC, given that such transaction(s) would be public and will raise concerns. And that's just Elon Musk, we're not even talking about western adversaries, like Putin or Xi, who have access to even more assets. And if we're thinking of BTC simply replacing physical cash, then you can even build fractional reserve system on top of it. Also, we seem to be discussing a magical world where BTC became the major currency overnight, with no time for financial system to adapt. If we go back to the real world, I could totally entertain a thought experiment of BTC replacing USD. Not that I support it, but again, few lucky billionaires is the least of my concerns, given that we already have those in the current system.
  - qwytw 4y ago
    > Also, we seem to be discussing a magical world where BTC became the major currency overnight True that the thing. Bitcoing is so fundamentally unfit to be a currency that any attempt to make it such would fail long before any of these issues would become relevant. > again, few lucky billionaires is the least of my concerns, given that we already have those in the current system So take one of the biggest issues with the current system, make it 10+ times worse and see what happens...

by hbrn 4y ago

qwytw 4y ago

> Why don't you share the numbers then, what is significant in your mind IIRC there are no numbers. Because nobody really knows who owns what. Also if you had huge amounts of bitcoin why on earth would you hold all of it in single wallet? Makes no sense... > privately owned wallets holding more than 0.5% of BTC. Which is an astronomically huge amount for a private individual to own in case BTC replaces dollars. Even if we only count actual dollars bills in circulation that 0.5% of that would be 10.5 billion. What private person could have that much cash stored somewhere? And most importantly why? If we include entire M1 supply (bills + deposits) 0.5% would be equal to 100 BILLION dollars. That's not an amount that can exist in a single place in USD, no single person does or ever did own such an amount in liquid assets which he could sell transfer the proceeds to someone in a short period of time. That's not really possible.

hbrn 4y ago
> no single person does or ever did own such an amount in liquid assets which he could sell transfer the proceeds to someone in a short period of time You seem to be confusing three similar, but fundamentally different things: physical cash, liquid assets, and being able to transfer in short period of time. Just because billionaire's assets are illiquid, it doesn't mean they can't transfer $10B in a short period of time. It simply means that portion of value will be lost during that transfer. > What private person could have that much cash stored somewhere? And most importantly why? Elon had $20B in cash (i.e. liquid assets) after selling 10% of his Tesla shares. He lost some value in the process, but afterwards he had $20B of liquid assets, which debunks your statement. Arguably, same will happen to $10B of BTC, given that such transaction(s) would be public and will raise concerns. And that's just Elon Musk, we're not even talking about western adversaries, like Putin or Xi, who have access to even more assets. And if we're thinking of BTC simply replacing physical cash, then you can even build fractional reserve system on top of it. Also, we seem to be discussing a magical world where BTC became the major currency overnight, with no time for financial system to adapt. If we go back to the real world, I could totally entertain a thought experiment of BTC replacing USD. Not that I support it, but again, few lucky billionaires is the least of my concerns, given that we already have those in the current system.
- qwytw 4y ago
  > Also, we seem to be discussing a magical world where BTC became the major currency overnight True that the thing. Bitcoing is so fundamentally unfit to be a currency that any attempt to make it such would fail long before any of these issues would become relevant. > again, few lucky billionaires is the least of my concerns, given that we already have those in the current system So take one of the biggest issues with the current system, make it 10+ times worse and see what happens...