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I know I will 100% regret posting anything remotely viewed as political here but this... Both sides actually want free speech, the blue side just argues that s

I know I will 100% regret posting anything remotely viewed as political here but this... Both sides actually want free speech, the blue side just argues that speech is more free when it's not stifled by hate. Is the most alarming doublethink I have seen in some time.

Spivak 4y ago
I can't speak for other people but I'm not gonna go after you or anything. It's not unreasonable or anything to see freedom as in liberty as contradictory in nature, people say the same thing about the paradox of tolerance or tragedy of the commons. It's one of those things things if you say viewing freedom from a systems perspective is invalid then its the natural conclusion. I don't really see it as doublethink. There's plenty of examples were rules make people more free. Our whole system of laws is based on that idea. I can drive on public roads and get where I want to quickly and safely because we all follow traffic laws. I have greater freedom to travel because there are rules. I can mostly (well during the day at least, give it up for being a woman) walk around freely and completely defenseless because of the laws about assault, murder, and theft. Right now we're on a forum where good discussion can be had because the mods will drop the banhammer if you start posting hate. If you know that posting anything about a controversial topic or just being a person who's identity is controversial at the moment will bring out a tidal wave of green accounts hurling insults against, you likely wouldn't post. Would you feel comfortable existing in the public sphere as a trans person if when you tweet you about any topic you got a hundred replies telling you to kill yourself already? Would you want to hang out in an IRC channel where any time you talk someone says, "shut up woman, get back to the kitchen?" If you believe your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins then whether you think it's right to restrict hate speech or not I think there should at least be some recognition that my position is at least logically consistent because I see hate speech as an act that restricts others' speech.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  << Would you want to hang out in an IRC channel where any time you talk someone says, "shut up woman, get back to the kitchen?" You, an individual who does not want to see this can set ignore on that someone. << logically consistent because I see hate speech as an act that restricts others' speech. It is consistent if you accept the logic leap made to assume restriction on speech somehow enhances it. Personally, I am not convinced, because I think you confuse safety ( or mental comfort ) with freedom. Maybe the word freedom has become too overloaded with meaning in English language. Maybe we should use something else: "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" Also, as a very practical measure, even if we do assume that hate speech actually does what it is supposed to do ( identify hate and remove hateful content ), do you really think it is smart to hide it from public view? And we did not even touch that 'hate speech' has recently come, not unlike nazis' to mean 'anything I don't like'.

Spivak 4y ago

I can't speak for other people but I'm not gonna go after you or anything. It's not unreasonable or anything to see freedom as in liberty as contradictory in nature, people say the same thing about the paradox of tolerance or tragedy of the commons. It's one of those things things if you say viewing freedom from a systems perspective is invalid then its the natural conclusion. I don't really see it as doublethink. There's plenty of examples were rules make people more free. Our whole system of laws is based on that idea. I can drive on public roads and get where I want to quickly and safely because we all follow traffic laws. I have greater freedom to travel because there are rules. I can mostly (well during the day at least, give it up for being a woman) walk around freely and completely defenseless because of the laws about assault, murder, and theft. Right now we're on a forum where good discussion can be had because the mods will drop the banhammer if you start posting hate. If you know that posting anything about a controversial topic or just being a person who's identity is controversial at the moment will bring out a tidal wave of green accounts hurling insults against, you likely wouldn't post. Would you feel comfortable existing in the public sphere as a trans person if when you tweet you about any topic you got a hundred replies telling you to kill yourself already? Would you want to hang out in an IRC channel where any time you talk someone says, "shut up woman, get back to the kitchen?" If you believe your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins then whether you think it's right to restrict hate speech or not I think there should at least be some recognition that my position is at least logically consistent because I see hate speech as an act that restricts others' speech.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
<< Would you want to hang out in an IRC channel where any time you talk someone says, "shut up woman, get back to the kitchen?" You, an individual who does not want to see this can set ignore on that someone. << logically consistent because I see hate speech as an act that restricts others' speech. It is consistent if you accept the logic leap made to assume restriction on speech somehow enhances it. Personally, I am not convinced, because I think you confuse safety ( or mental comfort ) with freedom. Maybe the word freedom has become too overloaded with meaning in English language. Maybe we should use something else: "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" Also, as a very practical measure, even if we do assume that hate speech actually does what it is supposed to do ( identify hate and remove hateful content ), do you really think it is smart to hide it from public view? And we did not even touch that 'hate speech' has recently come, not unlike nazis' to mean 'anything I don't like'.