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No. I'm thinking of rural areas. I know the difference... weird for you to assume I don't, honestly. > hunting supervised So not independent. At all. > fishi

No. I'm thinking of rural areas. I know the difference... weird for you to assume I don't, honestly. > hunting supervised So not independent. At all. > fishing, riding their bike places, exploring or "hanging out" in the woods, building things, working with power tools, etc. For a ten year old, all of those things can be done in a city FAR, FAR easier in a city than in a rural area. Even exploring the woods, in many cities, can be done by a ten year old with a commuter rail train pass and a bike. The crucial question when you are in a rural area is: with who? > riding their bike places You have to be intentional for this to be possible in rural areas. Not even "safe", just literally possible. Again, it's totally possible. But if you are not intentional, your kids will not, by default, be able to bike to their friend's place or a common middle ground. If they have to bike ten miles to meet up with a friend, they're going to end up connected to a car and spending most of their time online.

giantg2 4y ago
"So not independent. At all." Go back and re-read. Not everyone follows the rules. "But with who?" Friends within a couple miles, siblings, etc. "You have to be intentional for this to be possible in rural areas. Not even "safe", just literally possible." Yes, tell me my life experiences. Now stop trolling. It is literally possible and people do bike and walk places miles away. Don't believe me? Go look at the Amish.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  > Friends within a couple miles Which may or may not exist within 2 miles. Or even 10. Again, you have to be more intentional. In a city you can buy pretty much anywhere and the kid will have neighborhood friends. When moving to a rural area you have to think about this a bit more carefully. It's possible but not default. If you buy a place 10 miles away from the nearest house with kids who have a reasonable age overlap, then that's going to have a huge impact on your kid's independence. I am not trolling you. I don't care about you at all. I am addressing the original poster. I am giving them reasonable advice: you have to be more careful about where you buy in rural areas if you want your kid to be independent. There are downsides and things to be careful about when moving to any area. I am not attacking your lifestyle. I am simply pointing out some of the things that you need to think more carefully about when moving to a rural area, especially if you are a city person with no knowledge of rural life. I would give a similar list of downsides and how to mitigate them if OP were a person who has only lived in rural areas and was asking about city life. "Don't buy above a noisy bar; you can cross boundaries between safe and unsafe in a short stroll; research the transit system; having a car will be expensive but essential if you want to get out of the city; school quality can be excellent or terrible; apartment living has many downsides you'll need to be careful about mitigating; etc." None of these things are reasons to live in one place or another, and there are ways to address the problems. But you have to be aware of the problems in order to mitigate them. And the OP has never lives in a rural area, so might not have thought about "oh, if I am 2 miles down a gravel road and the nearest cluster of properties is 12 miles down the road then my kids have a hell of a bike ride if they want to play after school without depending on me shuttling them around. Odds are they'll probably end up on the internet a lot instead of doing the 7-14 mile ride on any given afternoon." Not a reason to move to a rural area! Just something to think about and consider -- cutting that down to 2 miles from 14 changes the game. My posts are not directed at you. They are advice to a different person entirely. But since we're here, another observation about rural life: aggressive and angry people are not unique to cities; they exist everywhere.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Always been by default for me.
uberman 4y ago
For a ten year old, all of those things can be done in a city FAR, FAR easier in a city than in a rural area. Even exploring the woods, in many cities, can be done by a ten year old with a commuter rail train pass and a bike. Parents in cities have been arrested for letting their 10 year old kids play in the public manicured park unsupervised. Google "Free Range Parenting" as a city thing. There is no way to compare the independence and freedom to play and roam of a country kid with a city kid. We moved to the country precisely because we felt is would have been ludicrously dangerous to let our 8 year old wander the streets of Philadelphia unsupervised. There was no chance in hell we would allow her to hop on an Amtrek to go hunting for frogs in some creek.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  > Parents in cities have been arrested for letting their 10 year old kids play in the public manicured park unsupervised. Google "Free Range Parenting" as a city thing. Okay. I googled it. I'm seeing articles about parents being arrested for this sort of thing in places like Blairsville, Georgia (pop. 526) and Killingly, Connecticut. Not exactly massive cities... If cities arrested kids for waling or biking or being on the subway alone, no one would be able to make it to school in the morning.
  - uberman 4y ago
    That surprises me because the poster case for free range parenting arrests is a family from Silver Springs MD, about 2 miles north of Washington DC. The second most notorious example being from Wilmette Illinois about 15 north of downtown Chicago and both well inside the accepted definitions of their respective metros. The third most infamous case is a mother from NYC. I guess your browser must be tuned into small town crime. https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-range-parenting-family-under-investigation-again/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-ran... https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom-parenting-police-free-range-neglect-children-column/1156144002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom... https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/16/i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-the-subway-alone-i-got-labeled-the-worlds-worst-mom/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/16/... Here is a counter arguments against your school point: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/single-dad-barred-from-sending-kids-to-school-on-city-bus-1.3577295 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/single-dad-barred-from-sending...

giantg2 4y ago

"So not independent. At all." Go back and re-read. Not everyone follows the rules. "But with who?" Friends within a couple miles, siblings, etc. "You have to be intentional for this to be possible in rural areas. Not even "safe", just literally possible." Yes, tell me my life experiences. Now stop trolling. It is literally possible and people do bike and walk places miles away. Don't believe me? Go look at the Amish.

thwayunion 4y ago
> Friends within a couple miles Which may or may not exist within 2 miles. Or even 10. Again, you have to be more intentional. In a city you can buy pretty much anywhere and the kid will have neighborhood friends. When moving to a rural area you have to think about this a bit more carefully. It's possible but not default. If you buy a place 10 miles away from the nearest house with kids who have a reasonable age overlap, then that's going to have a huge impact on your kid's independence. I am not trolling you. I don't care about you at all. I am addressing the original poster. I am giving them reasonable advice: you have to be more careful about where you buy in rural areas if you want your kid to be independent. There are downsides and things to be careful about when moving to any area. I am not attacking your lifestyle. I am simply pointing out some of the things that you need to think more carefully about when moving to a rural area, especially if you are a city person with no knowledge of rural life. I would give a similar list of downsides and how to mitigate them if OP were a person who has only lived in rural areas and was asking about city life. "Don't buy above a noisy bar; you can cross boundaries between safe and unsafe in a short stroll; research the transit system; having a car will be expensive but essential if you want to get out of the city; school quality can be excellent or terrible; apartment living has many downsides you'll need to be careful about mitigating; etc." None of these things are reasons to live in one place or another, and there are ways to address the problems. But you have to be aware of the problems in order to mitigate them. And the OP has never lives in a rural area, so might not have thought about "oh, if I am 2 miles down a gravel road and the nearest cluster of properties is 12 miles down the road then my kids have a hell of a bike ride if they want to play after school without depending on me shuttling them around. Odds are they'll probably end up on the internet a lot instead of doing the 7-14 mile ride on any given afternoon." Not a reason to move to a rural area! Just something to think about and consider -- cutting that down to 2 miles from 14 changes the game. My posts are not directed at you. They are advice to a different person entirely. But since we're here, another observation about rural life: aggressive and angry people are not unique to cities; they exist everywhere.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Always been by default for me.

uberman 4y ago

For a ten year old, all of those things can be done in a city FAR, FAR easier in a city than in a rural area. Even exploring the woods, in many cities, can be done by a ten year old with a commuter rail train pass and a bike. Parents in cities have been arrested for letting their 10 year old kids play in the public manicured park unsupervised. Google "Free Range Parenting" as a city thing. There is no way to compare the independence and freedom to play and roam of a country kid with a city kid. We moved to the country precisely because we felt is would have been ludicrously dangerous to let our 8 year old wander the streets of Philadelphia unsupervised. There was no chance in hell we would allow her to hop on an Amtrek to go hunting for frogs in some creek.

thwayunion 4y ago
> Parents in cities have been arrested for letting their 10 year old kids play in the public manicured park unsupervised. Google "Free Range Parenting" as a city thing. Okay. I googled it. I'm seeing articles about parents being arrested for this sort of thing in places like Blairsville, Georgia (pop. 526) and Killingly, Connecticut. Not exactly massive cities... If cities arrested kids for waling or biking or being on the subway alone, no one would be able to make it to school in the morning.
- uberman 4y ago
  That surprises me because the poster case for free range parenting arrests is a family from Silver Springs MD, about 2 miles north of Washington DC. The second most notorious example being from Wilmette Illinois about 15 north of downtown Chicago and both well inside the accepted definitions of their respective metros. The third most infamous case is a mother from NYC. I guess your browser must be tuned into small town crime. https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-range-parenting-family-under-investigation-again/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-ran... https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom-parenting-police-free-range-neglect-children-column/1156144002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom... https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/16/i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-the-subway-alone-i-got-labeled-the-worlds-worst-mom/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/16/... Here is a counter arguments against your school point: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/single-dad-barred-from-sending-kids-to-school-on-city-bus-1.3577295 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/single-dad-barred-from-sending...