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why would they care? just pay them by task/result, not by hour and you don't need to care how much and when they work if they fulfill deadlines

by petodo 4y ago

tablespoon 4y ago
> why would they care? just pay them by task/result, not by hour and you don't need to care how much and when they work if they fulfill deadlines No developer with any sense or dignity is going to work at a piece-rate. And honestly, it doesn't make much sense for an employer, either. Do you want all your productivity evaporating into a never-ending haggle over tasks and what happens when someone can't complete one for reasons outside his control?
- nicenewtemp84 4y ago
  Ive posted here with varying screen names that I worked in car sales and outperformed national average by over 300%, for a decade. All commission performance based pay. Made about $250k a year working 10 feet away from coworkers making 50k a year doing the exact same job and basically the same hours. The people making $50k a year can tell you tons of stories about things that weren't in their control. High performers realize everything is in their control to fix or push to a large degree, and even if that one task does implode out of your control, you take it and grin and move on to the next task. Would you really turn down the chance to make 5x what your coworkers do, just because sometimes in a blue moon you got screwed on a particular task and didn't get paid for it?
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    So? Car sales is so different from software development, there are few profitable comparisons to be made. You might as well assume it's nothing like software development. Piece-rate only makes any sense if you're doing the same thing over and over. If you're developing the same piece of software over and over, something in seriously wrong.
    - nicenewtemp84 4y ago
      I'm no longer in car sales and now do software development work although on my own micro saas type product. I don't see why tasks couldn't be devided up and given a value and people get paid for completing it. Some would be easier, and some would be harder and worth more. I might not be a veteran developer, but from what I see this could work.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > I don't see why tasks couldn't be devided up and given a value and people get paid for completing it. Some would be easier, and some would be harder and worth more. I might not be a veteran developer, but from what I see this could work. It would not work because the scenario you describe would amount to seeing "all your productivity evaporate into a never-ending haggle over tasks." Also you presume that you can be good at estimation and assigning "value," but everyone actually sucks at that. That's not to say that no one can accurately estimate anything, it means everyone sucks at estimating when it really matters. Your idea also kneecaps your ability to delegate, and motivates pay-later kinds of corner cutting.
        nicenewtemp84 4y ago
        You can come up with all the fortune telling excuses you want, but having seen both systems in action, I believe it can be done. And it would be worth trying IMO, because the potential for productivity improvement is insanely high. Dumber things have been tried (codling tech workers).
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > ...but having seen both systems in action, I believe it can be done. Are you talking about your time selling cars? Have you actually seen a software engineering organization work by paying commission/piece-rate for the completion of tasks? > And it would be worth trying IMO, because the potential for productivity improvement is insanely high. Dumber things have been tried (codling tech workers). It's not worth trying, I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been tried many times before. It's a bad idea that's easy to think of, and appeals to certain kinds of prejudices and misunderstandings. I've spend enough time talking about it. By the way, have you ever read the classic software engineering book PeopleWare? If you haven't, you should.

why would they care? just pay them by task/result, not by hour and you don't need to care how much and when they work if they fulfill deadlines

by petodo 4y ago

why would they care? just pay them by task/result, not by hour and you don't need to care how much and when they work if they fulfill deadlines

tablespoon 4y ago

> why would they care? just pay them by task/result, not by hour and you don't need to care how much and when they work if they fulfill deadlines No developer with any sense or dignity is going to work at a piece-rate. And honestly, it doesn't make much sense for an employer, either. Do you want all your productivity evaporating into a never-ending haggle over tasks and what happens when someone can't complete one for reasons outside his control?

nicenewtemp84 4y ago
Ive posted here with varying screen names that I worked in car sales and outperformed national average by over 300%, for a decade. All commission performance based pay. Made about $250k a year working 10 feet away from coworkers making 50k a year doing the exact same job and basically the same hours. The people making $50k a year can tell you tons of stories about things that weren't in their control. High performers realize everything is in their control to fix or push to a large degree, and even if that one task does implode out of your control, you take it and grin and move on to the next task. Would you really turn down the chance to make 5x what your coworkers do, just because sometimes in a blue moon you got screwed on a particular task and didn't get paid for it?
- tablespoon 4y ago
  So? Car sales is so different from software development, there are few profitable comparisons to be made. You might as well assume it's nothing like software development. Piece-rate only makes any sense if you're doing the same thing over and over. If you're developing the same piece of software over and over, something in seriously wrong.
  - nicenewtemp84 4y ago
    I'm no longer in car sales and now do software development work although on my own micro saas type product. I don't see why tasks couldn't be devided up and given a value and people get paid for completing it. Some would be easier, and some would be harder and worth more. I might not be a veteran developer, but from what I see this could work.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > I don't see why tasks couldn't be devided up and given a value and people get paid for completing it. Some would be easier, and some would be harder and worth more. I might not be a veteran developer, but from what I see this could work. It would not work because the scenario you describe would amount to seeing "all your productivity evaporate into a never-ending haggle over tasks." Also you presume that you can be good at estimation and assigning "value," but everyone actually sucks at that. That's not to say that no one can accurately estimate anything, it means everyone sucks at estimating when it really matters. Your idea also kneecaps your ability to delegate, and motivates pay-later kinds of corner cutting.
      - nicenewtemp84 4y ago
        You can come up with all the fortune telling excuses you want, but having seen both systems in action, I believe it can be done. And it would be worth trying IMO, because the potential for productivity improvement is insanely high. Dumber things have been tried (codling tech workers).
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > ...but having seen both systems in action, I believe it can be done. Are you talking about your time selling cars? Have you actually seen a software engineering organization work by paying commission/piece-rate for the completion of tasks? > And it would be worth trying IMO, because the potential for productivity improvement is insanely high. Dumber things have been tried (codling tech workers). It's not worth trying, I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been tried many times before. It's a bad idea that's easy to think of, and appeals to certain kinds of prejudices and misunderstandings. I've spend enough time talking about it. By the way, have you ever read the classic software engineering book PeopleWare? If you haven't, you should.