4 ms·

Elon Musk Knocked Tesla’s ‘Full Self-Driving’ Off Course

52 points by uberdru 4y ago

makeitdouble 4y ago
> Musk has described the Tesla “Full Self-Driving” technology as “the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money and being worth basically zero,” I can't imagine how a meeting would go if an engineer has to explain to Musk that Full Self-Driving will take a long long time, way longer than it will take him to buy another company.
- watwut 4y ago
  Musk would fire the engineer or otherwise punished him. Other engineers would take the lesson and would stop saying such things.
- Fricken 4y ago
  Sterling Anderson, the second autopilot director, was fired by Elon for insisting on the importance of Lidar. Sterling went on to cofound L4 startup Aurora, which Elon then, shortly after, attempted to sue into oblivion with a frivolous trade secrets theft lawsuit. Elon's sabotage efforts go back to the original EyeQ3 autopilot system from Mobileye. Elon had his people hack the system and push it's capabilities beyond it's safe design constraints, which led to Mobileye terminating it's contract with Tesla, following the death of Joshua Brown. If Tesla had simply played nice with Mobileye in the first place they would have saved themselves so much trouble.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - temp2022account 4y ago
    Man that's dumb; I tested my Hyundai Elantra vs a Model 3 and found the Elantra's steering wheel actually tracked the road, in comparison the Tesla kinda swayed from side to side and only moved the wheel when on a direct (>15 degree angle) course to exit the lane it was in. I expect car sensors will grow in much the same way as sensors used in airliners, and that industry ensures _everything_ is redundant so one sensor failure domain can't compromise the entire vehicle.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - lesuorac 4y ago
      > I expect car sensors will grow in much the same way as sensors used in airliners, and that industry ensures _everything_ is redundant so one sensor failure domain can't compromise the entire vehicle. Might want to not underline _everything_. > Boeing admitted MCAS played a role in both accidents, when it acted on false data from a single angle of attack (AoA) sensor. [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Augmentation_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Au...
andreareina 4y ago
https://archive.is/xrJDT https://archive.is/xrJDT
browningstreet 4y ago
I just drove my Tesla on an 11 hour road trip. The phantom braking kicked in no less than 10 times, at highway speeds on empty roads. During auto-pilot, nothing more (not FSD, not FSD beta, not enhanced auto-pilot). I love the vehicle but the fact that they haven’t fixed this, addressed it, or acknowledged it further puts no faith for me in whatever they’re doing for FSD. They can spend as many years as they want figuring this out, but phantom braking is a problem for people who bought their cars and are using default features. And it’s super f#%^ing annoying.
- thunky 4y ago
  > I love the vehicle I don't know how you could say this next to the rest of your comment. How is a car that flat out doesn't work and is a public safety hazard worthy of being loved?
- blitzar 4y ago
  > they haven’t fixed this A fix has been done and will be rolled out by the end of the year. (Tesla: 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023)
- anecdotal1 4y ago
  Which Tesla? Because my 2018 Model 3 has stopped phantom braking after updates, but I'm aware that newer Model 3 and Model Ys seem to still have the issue. I've done multiple trips across the country without the phantom braking.
  - browningstreet 4y ago
    2022 Y LR
tempnow987 4y ago
Just skimmed beginning of article - this article talks about teslas "blowing through stop signs" and the regulators having to recall them for this. "Blowing through" stop signs was a rolling stop when it was a 4 way stop with all roads at 30MPH or less and no relevant moving cars are people or bikes. The rolling stop never was more than 6MPH, and often much lower (think 1-3MPH). We have folks blow through stops signs where I live at 35 MPH when others are present, I've got dash cam of this. No action by cops. But teslas roll through at 0.5MPH, and it's end of world. The description by these "journalists" is wildly misleading. What's weird, there are issues that drivers really really wish would get addressed because they are bad for quality of life and safety. Basic adaptive cruise control / autopilot / phantom braking stuff that seems worse not better from the mobileye days (??? - how is this possible). Not sure what solution is. Having some kind of better radar, at least one lidar unit to ground truth the vision a bit more? Better mapping and navigation so it can cheat and for example avoid unprotected lefts a bit more?
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  Yeah rolling stop issue is farcical but afaik actual problem is Teslas miss like 10% of stop signs altogether

52 points by uberdru 4y ago

> Musk has described the Tesla “Full Self-Driving” technology as “the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money and being worth basically zero,” I can't imagine how a meeting would go if an engineer has to explain to Musk that Full Self-Driving will take a long long time, way longer than it will take him to buy another company.

watwut 4y ago
Musk would fire the engineer or otherwise punished him. Other engineers would take the lesson and would stop saying such things.
Fricken 4y ago
Sterling Anderson, the second autopilot director, was fired by Elon for insisting on the importance of Lidar. Sterling went on to cofound L4 startup Aurora, which Elon then, shortly after, attempted to sue into oblivion with a frivolous trade secrets theft lawsuit. Elon's sabotage efforts go back to the original EyeQ3 autopilot system from Mobileye. Elon had his people hack the system and push it's capabilities beyond it's safe design constraints, which led to Mobileye terminating it's contract with Tesla, following the death of Joshua Brown. If Tesla had simply played nice with Mobileye in the first place they would have saved themselves so much trouble.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- temp2022account 4y ago
  Man that's dumb; I tested my Hyundai Elantra vs a Model 3 and found the Elantra's steering wheel actually tracked the road, in comparison the Tesla kinda swayed from side to side and only moved the wheel when on a direct (>15 degree angle) course to exit the lane it was in. I expect car sensors will grow in much the same way as sensors used in airliners, and that industry ensures _everything_ is redundant so one sensor failure domain can't compromise the entire vehicle.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lesuorac 4y ago
    > I expect car sensors will grow in much the same way as sensors used in airliners, and that industry ensures _everything_ is redundant so one sensor failure domain can't compromise the entire vehicle. Might want to not underline _everything_. > Boeing admitted MCAS played a role in both accidents, when it acted on false data from a single angle of attack (AoA) sensor. [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Augmentation_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Au...

andreareina 4y ago

https://archive.is/xrJDT https://archive.is/xrJDT

browningstreet 4y ago

I just drove my Tesla on an 11 hour road trip. The phantom braking kicked in no less than 10 times, at highway speeds on empty roads. During auto-pilot, nothing more (not FSD, not FSD beta, not enhanced auto-pilot). I love the vehicle but the fact that they haven’t fixed this, addressed it, or acknowledged it further puts no faith for me in whatever they’re doing for FSD. They can spend as many years as they want figuring this out, but phantom braking is a problem for people who bought their cars and are using default features. And it’s super f#%^ing annoying.

thunky 4y ago
> I love the vehicle I don't know how you could say this next to the rest of your comment. How is a car that flat out doesn't work and is a public safety hazard worthy of being loved?
blitzar 4y ago
> they haven’t fixed this A fix has been done and will be rolled out by the end of the year. (Tesla: 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023)
anecdotal1 4y ago
Which Tesla? Because my 2018 Model 3 has stopped phantom braking after updates, but I'm aware that newer Model 3 and Model Ys seem to still have the issue. I've done multiple trips across the country without the phantom braking.
- browningstreet 4y ago
  2022 Y LR

tempnow987 4y ago

Just skimmed beginning of article - this article talks about teslas "blowing through stop signs" and the regulators having to recall them for this. "Blowing through" stop signs was a rolling stop when it was a 4 way stop with all roads at 30MPH or less and no relevant moving cars are people or bikes. The rolling stop never was more than 6MPH, and often much lower (think 1-3MPH). We have folks blow through stops signs where I live at 35 MPH when others are present, I've got dash cam of this. No action by cops. But teslas roll through at 0.5MPH, and it's end of world. The description by these "journalists" is wildly misleading. What's weird, there are issues that drivers really really wish would get addressed because they are bad for quality of life and safety. Basic adaptive cruise control / autopilot / phantom braking stuff that seems worse not better from the mobileye days (??? - how is this possible). Not sure what solution is. Having some kind of better radar, at least one lidar unit to ground truth the vision a bit more? Better mapping and navigation so it can cheat and for example avoid unprotected lefts a bit more?

dzhiurgis 4y ago
Yeah rolling stop issue is farcical but afaik actual problem is Teslas miss like 10% of stop signs altogether