6 ms·

In before somebody is going to say they can rewrite curl in a weekend hackaton.

by coolgoose 4y ago

aew4ytasghe5 4y ago
25 years of CVE:s, why not.
- lionkor 4y ago
  to be fair, if you have ever used the curl C api, you can see why there are 25 years of CVEs, and not 25 years of reliable secure bug free networking (not that its possible). I love C as much as the next guy, hell, I even write it for fun when I'm feeling down -- but the one thing I won't do, beyond a little "i wrote an http 1.0 server in C" joke project, is networking. Keep your C offline. If I do networking, it has to be modern C++ with static analyzers, good practices, boost asio, unit testing, and sanitizers, or just Rust, Erlang/Elixir, or whatever other non-C language. Ive never seen a library get as abused and misused as Curl in source code - well maybe zlib. I think it's great that curl exists, and Im glad its so old that the bugs are mostly worked out, but writing a subset of curl that doesnt have a million issues in a weekend is not so unrealistic.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Why try not, then? Edit: Just found this[0], hehe. :) [0]: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/
- jamespo 4y ago
  what have you created in the last 25 years?
return_to_monke 4y ago
of course I can ! just pull in libcurl and then it is just parsing cli arguments
mfrw 4y ago
There is a blogpost about this exactly where Daniel collects similar responses: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  "We sold a curl exploit" is a nice short story of everything wrong with our rotten industry.
- selfmodruntime 4y ago
  Lobsters and HN have really become a hotspot for arrogant contrarians. You can observe this best in the comment section of any thread that dares to mention modern web development.
intelVISA 4y ago
A whole weekend?! With GPT4 and C++23 on the horizon that's more of an afternoon delight.
- noduerme 4y ago
  Hah. Goddamn. This comment was depressing enough to shock me into leaving HN for the night. We have so little time left. I should spend it reading good books.
- colonwqbang 4y ago
  Half of which is just waiting for the code to compile.
  - gchamonlive 4y ago
    You could ask for gpt to pretend to be a Linux machine and predict how the c++ code would run without compiling with 99% accuracy and just a little chance of hallucinating the target endpoint responding with 418
charcircuit 4y ago
What's stopping you from making a basic version? Just about everything supports HTTP 1.0 still so you can make a quick program that sends: GET / HTTP/1.0 Host: example.com over a socket and that's already mostly working. Figure out TLS. Then you just have to do command line parsing and add the stuff you parsed into your request.
- parker_mountain 4y ago
  "Figure out TLS." Is this sarcasm? A joke?
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    OpenSSL or your TLS library of choice will likely have documentation and examples showing you how to use it. I'm not sure I understand your point.
    - distcs 4y ago
      Have you looked at the documentation or are you just guessing? When you realize how impenetrable OpenSSL or any TLS lib documentation looks to people untrained in cryptography, you would gain a new appreciation for Git man pages!
      - dimman 4y ago
        Kind of makes you think that the subject at hand is quite complex in its nature, thus untrained people might do best to steer away until properly trained.
      - magicalhippo 4y ago
        I used mbedTLS a while ago when implementing my own HTTPS server from scratch. I had no particular crypto or TLS knowledge, though I did know about ciphers, hashes and certificates from a high level. Between the docs[1][2] and the examples[3] I was up and running using my own IO stack in a couple of evenings. If I had used the IO stack from the library it would have been very easy. Another couple of evenings and I had it integrated with Windows' certificate store. In the end it wasn't very difficult to implement, but it was a bit more of a challenge figuring out the documentation and how it related to mbedTLS. Definitely a rewarding experience, gave me some nice insights into the plumbing. edit: Note, not trying to argue replacing libcurl is a weekend project! [1]: https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/ https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/ [2]: https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/api/group/group__ssltls__communication__module/ https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/api/g... [3]: https://github.com/Mbed-TLS/mbedtls/blob/development/programs/ssl/ssl_server.c https://github.com/Mbed-TLS/mbedtls/blob/development/program...
scottlamb 4y ago
The most charitable view I can take of such comments is to mentally paraphrase them to: "I can rewrite the small subset of the curl CLI that I personally use, in a modern language, on top of an existing HTTP library, in a weekend hackathon". That doesn't seem so crazy.
- jve 4y ago
  Yeah, especially using libcurl. writing stuff I use is not that much of an effort. However providing various configuration options, handling edge cases and scenarios millions of programmers would like to use... different league.
Razengan 4y ago
Done https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35229588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35229588

In before somebody is going to say they can rewrite curl in a weekend hackaton.

aew4ytasghe5 4y ago

25 years of CVE:s, why not.

lionkor 4y ago
to be fair, if you have ever used the curl C api, you can see why there are 25 years of CVEs, and not 25 years of reliable secure bug free networking (not that its possible). I love C as much as the next guy, hell, I even write it for fun when I'm feeling down -- but the one thing I won't do, beyond a little "i wrote an http 1.0 server in C" joke project, is networking. Keep your C offline. If I do networking, it has to be modern C++ with static analyzers, good practices, boost asio, unit testing, and sanitizers, or just Rust, Erlang/Elixir, or whatever other non-C language. Ive never seen a library get as abused and misused as Curl in source code - well maybe zlib. I think it's great that curl exists, and Im glad its so old that the bugs are mostly worked out, but writing a subset of curl that doesnt have a million issues in a weekend is not so unrealistic.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  Why try not, then? Edit: Just found this[0], hehe. :) [0]: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/
jamespo 4y ago
what have you created in the last 25 years?

return_to_monke 4y ago

of course I can ! just pull in libcurl and then it is just parsing cli arguments

mfrw 4y ago

There is a blogpost about this exactly where Daniel collects similar responses: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/05/20/i-could-rewrite-curl/

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
"We sold a curl exploit" is a nice short story of everything wrong with our rotten industry.
selfmodruntime 4y ago
Lobsters and HN have really become a hotspot for arrogant contrarians. You can observe this best in the comment section of any thread that dares to mention modern web development.

intelVISA 4y ago

A whole weekend?! With GPT4 and C++23 on the horizon that's more of an afternoon delight.

noduerme 4y ago
Hah. Goddamn. This comment was depressing enough to shock me into leaving HN for the night. We have so little time left. I should spend it reading good books.
colonwqbang 4y ago
Half of which is just waiting for the code to compile.
- gchamonlive 4y ago
  You could ask for gpt to pretend to be a Linux machine and predict how the c++ code would run without compiling with 99% accuracy and just a little chance of hallucinating the target endpoint responding with 418

charcircuit 4y ago

What's stopping you from making a basic version? Just about everything supports HTTP 1.0 still so you can make a quick program that sends: GET / HTTP/1.0 Host: example.com over a socket and that's already mostly working. Figure out TLS. Then you just have to do command line parsing and add the stuff you parsed into your request.

parker_mountain 4y ago
"Figure out TLS." Is this sarcasm? A joke?
- charcircuit 4y ago
  OpenSSL or your TLS library of choice will likely have documentation and examples showing you how to use it. I'm not sure I understand your point.
  - distcs 4y ago
    Have you looked at the documentation or are you just guessing? When you realize how impenetrable OpenSSL or any TLS lib documentation looks to people untrained in cryptography, you would gain a new appreciation for Git man pages!
    - dimman 4y ago
      Kind of makes you think that the subject at hand is quite complex in its nature, thus untrained people might do best to steer away until properly trained.
    - magicalhippo 4y ago
      I used mbedTLS a while ago when implementing my own HTTPS server from scratch. I had no particular crypto or TLS knowledge, though I did know about ciphers, hashes and certificates from a high level. Between the docs[1][2] and the examples[3] I was up and running using my own IO stack in a couple of evenings. If I had used the IO stack from the library it would have been very easy. Another couple of evenings and I had it integrated with Windows' certificate store. In the end it wasn't very difficult to implement, but it was a bit more of a challenge figuring out the documentation and how it related to mbedTLS. Definitely a rewarding experience, gave me some nice insights into the plumbing. edit: Note, not trying to argue replacing libcurl is a weekend project! [1]: https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/ https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/ [2]: https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/api/group/group__ssltls__communication__module/ https://mbed-tls.readthedocs.io/projects/api/en/latest/api/g... [3]: https://github.com/Mbed-TLS/mbedtls/blob/development/programs/ssl/ssl_server.c https://github.com/Mbed-TLS/mbedtls/blob/development/program...

scottlamb 4y ago

The most charitable view I can take of such comments is to mentally paraphrase them to: "I can rewrite the small subset of the curl CLI that I personally use, in a modern language, on top of an existing HTTP library, in a weekend hackathon". That doesn't seem so crazy.

jve 4y ago
Yeah, especially using libcurl. writing stuff I use is not that much of an effort. However providing various configuration options, handling edge cases and scenarios millions of programmers would like to use... different league.

Razengan 4y ago

Done https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35229588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35229588