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I personally know three AF aviators who were diagnosed with brain cancer. The story I heard was that C-130 aircrew had raised the alarm, the Air Force did a stu

I personally know three AF aviators who were diagnosed with brain cancer. The story I heard was that C-130 aircrew had raised the alarm, the Air Force did a study, and determined that statistically AF aviators were no more likely to get these cancers than the general population. Many were suspicious of the findings. After that, two more aviators, close friends of mine, were diagnosed with brain cancer, one of whom has since passed away. My thoughts are that it probably has to do with the airborne radars in use.

docandrew 4y ago
This was the study: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA522424.pdf https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA522424.pdf
picture 4y ago
Radar does not cause cancer because radar do not emit ionizing radiation. Afaik ionizing radiation (gamma rays) are in the exahertz range and would have very high absorption by atmosphere. Modern radar systems are millimeter wave or microwave at most. I think that spending a lot of time at very high altitude means they will absorb more radiation over time than someone who spends their life on the ground.
- docandrew 4y ago
  That’s what they tell me, but could RF heating contribute? I found this too which was interesting: https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/pr208_E.pdf https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/pr208_E....
- midoridensha 4y ago
  How much time do USAF pilots actually spend at altitude? Commercial pilots I've talked to say it's generally well-known that military pilots don't have many flight hours. If you want to study pilots with the most high-altitude flight hours, just look at the pilots for big commercial airlines. Military aircraft are expensive per flight-hour so they don't fly them more than they really need to; commercial aircraft are losing money when they're not in the air, by contrast.
  - docandrew 4y ago
    Depends on the plane, but I think average of about 200 hours per year is typical. Most of the retired military pilots I know have around 3000-4000 hours after a 20-year military career, some of which is going to be non-flying assignments.
nerdponx 4y ago
> My thoughts are that it probably has to do with the airborne radars in use. If this turns out to be the case, it would call into question the now-decades of arguments that what "EMF fog" is safe for humans in general, which would have implications beyond just the military. People who argue such points tend to be screwball conspiracy theorists in general, and I hate to give them even a shred of validation. But I've always been skeptical that the human body would be completely unaffected by higher doses of non-ionizing radiation beyond baseline, for extended periods of time. Meanwhile there is a growing body of research that electromagnetic fields can affect the human body, especially the central nervous system, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33945157/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33945157/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34043892/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34043892/. These both seem like reputable albeit smaller journals, and the researchers seem to be working in good faith, although I'm not connected to this field and I would be a poor judge of that. Based on what I've been seeing in the research above, I'd hope that brain cancer is unlikely, unless you can get cancer from having weird electrical signals induced in your brain (anything is possible I guess). But it probably isn't good to get blasted with high doses of microwave radiation on a regular basis.
- zenexer 4y ago
  > But I've always been skeptical that the human body would be completely unaffected by higher doses of non-ionizing radiation beyond baseline, for extended periods of time. Well, what would you consider to be baseline? The overwhelming majority of the non-ionizing radiation that we experience comes in the form of visible and near-visible light. If you sit near a window all day, your baseline is going to be much higher than someone who sits in a gloomy, dark office. No amount of EMF fog from nearby electronics is going to come close to making up that difference. According to NASA, the amount of energy reaching earth’s outer atmosphere from the sun is about 1360 W/m^2 for the portion of atmosphere directly facing the sun.[1] Most of that is non-ionizing, and some of it is filtered out, but that’s still a lot. Another great example is a smartphone. If you use your phone for a few hours each day, the overwhelming majority of the non-ionizing radiation emitted comes from the screen, not the radio. While you could theoretically exceed that dosage per square meter by, say, sticking your hand in a microwave oven, doing so would be fairly uncomfortable. If we were to find that non-ionizing radiation causes problems at low doses (below where we perceive it as heat), it would have to be specific wavelengths, not just non-ionizing radiation in general. [1]: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance/page2.php https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance/pag...

docandrew 4y ago

This was the study: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA522424.pdf https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA522424.pdf

picture 4y ago

Radar does not cause cancer because radar do not emit ionizing radiation. Afaik ionizing radiation (gamma rays) are in the exahertz range and would have very high absorption by atmosphere. Modern radar systems are millimeter wave or microwave at most. I think that spending a lot of time at very high altitude means they will absorb more radiation over time than someone who spends their life on the ground.

docandrew 4y ago
That’s what they tell me, but could RF heating contribute? I found this too which was interesting: https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/pr208_E.pdf https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/pr208_E....
midoridensha 4y ago
How much time do USAF pilots actually spend at altitude? Commercial pilots I've talked to say it's generally well-known that military pilots don't have many flight hours. If you want to study pilots with the most high-altitude flight hours, just look at the pilots for big commercial airlines. Military aircraft are expensive per flight-hour so they don't fly them more than they really need to; commercial aircraft are losing money when they're not in the air, by contrast.
- docandrew 4y ago
  Depends on the plane, but I think average of about 200 hours per year is typical. Most of the retired military pilots I know have around 3000-4000 hours after a 20-year military career, some of which is going to be non-flying assignments.

nerdponx 4y ago

> My thoughts are that it probably has to do with the airborne radars in use. If this turns out to be the case, it would call into question the now-decades of arguments that what "EMF fog" is safe for humans in general, which would have implications beyond just the military. People who argue such points tend to be screwball conspiracy theorists in general, and I hate to give them even a shred of validation. But I've always been skeptical that the human body would be completely unaffected by higher doses of non-ionizing radiation beyond baseline, for extended periods of time. Meanwhile there is a growing body of research that electromagnetic fields can affect the human body, especially the central nervous system, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33945157/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33945157/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34043892/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34043892/. These both seem like reputable albeit smaller journals, and the researchers seem to be working in good faith, although I'm not connected to this field and I would be a poor judge of that. Based on what I've been seeing in the research above, I'd hope that brain cancer is unlikely, unless you can get cancer from having weird electrical signals induced in your brain (anything is possible I guess). But it probably isn't good to get blasted with high doses of microwave radiation on a regular basis.

zenexer 4y ago
> But I've always been skeptical that the human body would be completely unaffected by higher doses of non-ionizing radiation beyond baseline, for extended periods of time. Well, what would you consider to be baseline? The overwhelming majority of the non-ionizing radiation that we experience comes in the form of visible and near-visible light. If you sit near a window all day, your baseline is going to be much higher than someone who sits in a gloomy, dark office. No amount of EMF fog from nearby electronics is going to come close to making up that difference. According to NASA, the amount of energy reaching earth’s outer atmosphere from the sun is about 1360 W/m^2 for the portion of atmosphere directly facing the sun.[1] Most of that is non-ionizing, and some of it is filtered out, but that’s still a lot. Another great example is a smartphone. If you use your phone for a few hours each day, the overwhelming majority of the non-ionizing radiation emitted comes from the screen, not the radio. While you could theoretically exceed that dosage per square meter by, say, sticking your hand in a microwave oven, doing so would be fairly uncomfortable. If we were to find that non-ionizing radiation causes problems at low doses (below where we perceive it as heat), it would have to be specific wavelengths, not just non-ionizing radiation in general. [1]: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance/page2.php https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance/pag...