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There's cynicism and then there is naive optimism. The time for the ruling class to be given a pass for their failures is at an end. Funny thing is they are th

There's cynicism and then there is naive optimism. The time for the ruling class to be given a pass for their failures is at an end. Funny thing is they are the ones calling for and end to complacency, but strangely enough that does not extend to complacency toward their corruption, incompetence, and greed

tootie 4y ago
There is cynicism, naive optimism, and those who celebrate wins when we get them without declaring the job over.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  "Nations reach accord" is not a win for commoners or for the environment.
- cmehdy 4y ago
  The point of the person you're replying to is that celebrating this pretty much falls into the naive optimism category. The Paris accord of 2015 comes to mind: the largest emitter by capita withdrawed within a few years (amongst other things, since few did really follow it fully) and nearly a decade later all predictions look pretty depressing. It was celebrated out of hope, but perhaps people need more concrete results before being happy now.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    > The Paris accord of 2015 comes to mind: the largest emitter by capita withdrawed within a few years Which emitter would that be? Because if you're talking about the US, it withdrew for ~3 months (11/04/2020 - 1/20/2021). If agreements are negotiated to be that resistant to national politics, that seems like a design win.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    Right. In 2015, peak coal was behind us. The naive optimists thought "it's all down hill from here". A "global accord" has been reached, so all that's left to do is slap together a few windmills, some solar panels, stop mining coal or drilling oil and gas, and problem solved. Today, somehow, peak coal is in front of us again and emissions promises have been revealed as flimsy half-truths that are gamed and lied about as part of domestic and international power struggles and political maneuvering, to the absolute shock and surprise of nobody who has paid the slightest attention to the behavior and trustworthiness of politicians and bureaucrats and their corporate masters at any time in the past 50+ years.
- tap-snap-or-nap 4y ago
  Humans are very good at manipulating a general win to serve their private gains and abuse it to the maximum possible extent.
  - tootie 4y ago
    Yes and? Absolutely any positive progress be it complete or partial will be exploited for personal gain by someone. That's human nature and it's impossible to stop.

tootie 4y ago

There is cynicism, naive optimism, and those who celebrate wins when we get them without declaring the job over.

throwawaylinux 4y ago
"Nations reach accord" is not a win for commoners or for the environment.
cmehdy 4y ago
The point of the person you're replying to is that celebrating this pretty much falls into the naive optimism category. The Paris accord of 2015 comes to mind: the largest emitter by capita withdrawed within a few years (amongst other things, since few did really follow it fully) and nearly a decade later all predictions look pretty depressing. It was celebrated out of hope, but perhaps people need more concrete results before being happy now.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  > The Paris accord of 2015 comes to mind: the largest emitter by capita withdrawed within a few years Which emitter would that be? Because if you're talking about the US, it withdrew for ~3 months (11/04/2020 - 1/20/2021). If agreements are negotiated to be that resistant to national politics, that seems like a design win.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  Right. In 2015, peak coal was behind us. The naive optimists thought "it's all down hill from here". A "global accord" has been reached, so all that's left to do is slap together a few windmills, some solar panels, stop mining coal or drilling oil and gas, and problem solved. Today, somehow, peak coal is in front of us again and emissions promises have been revealed as flimsy half-truths that are gamed and lied about as part of domestic and international power struggles and political maneuvering, to the absolute shock and surprise of nobody who has paid the slightest attention to the behavior and trustworthiness of politicians and bureaucrats and their corporate masters at any time in the past 50+ years.
tap-snap-or-nap 4y ago
Humans are very good at manipulating a general win to serve their private gains and abuse it to the maximum possible extent.
- tootie 4y ago
  Yes and? Absolutely any positive progress be it complete or partial will be exploited for personal gain by someone. That's human nature and it's impossible to stop.