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No one's swapping out the entire population. But populations change, when people move, demographics recompose, and local customs accordingly. HK nativism/locali

No one's swapping out the entire population. But populations change, when people move, demographics recompose, and local customs accordingly. HK nativism/localism rose after ~150/day “one way permits” from PRC to HK (for the wealthy and family reunification) led to 1/7 (15%) of the city's growth coming from mainlanders in 20 years. That's relatively fast, as is visible within a generation, but also about as subtle as the US racial composition going from 75% white to 60% in the same amount of time. Que similar REEEs from a bunch of young, privileged HK nativist about dirty mainlander shitting on their streets, taking their jobs and leeching their benefits (all somewhat true). But in America/west they're not called freedom fighters, they're called alt right protecting white culture, and (not accusing you) tends to adopt the flippant narrative accusing immigrants mixing their own culture as "cultural genocide". In HK’s case, mainlanders get lumped together, as if there's no regional diversity from a huge country of 1.4B people. It's the familiar culture war pattern of privileged locals mad at poor mainland (Mexicans) doing menial labour while being unsightly eyesores, while skilled mainland labour is taking their jobs and rich mainland pig farmers are buying their penthouses whilst flaunting wealth and reminding locals that HK was great when PRC was poor, so lets make HK great again. Broad point being, in-demand urban centres in PRC (and around the world) have experienced dramatic shifts in demographics due to rapid urbanization and migration patterns (both domestic and international) causing city folk to collide with country bumpkins or dominant supremacists with ethnicities they find "inferior". But most places largely integrate while life and culture moves on. Until the alt right, or those nativists/localists parallels in HK politicize en masse and rally against filthy foreigners (alien mainland "locusts") and lose their shit and burn down the city over the fact that culture is changing to accommodate/reflect these inferior outgroups. I'm not even unsympathetic to groups including in the west who think identity / culture has changed too much too fast. But I'm also not going to shed tears after they get stomped when they operationalize their nativism. All these arguments defending that only HKers should determine HK culture forgets that PRC "immigrants" to HK are NEW HKers and get a voice too, even if the flows inevitably shifts them towards becoming "just another Chinese city" - as if Chinese cities are all homogeneous. From a mainland perspective, the alternative vision of a British HK, lashing out to forever be untouched from 99% of "one" country, is absurd.

re-thc 4y ago
> All these arguments defending that only HKers should determine HK culture forgets that PRC "immigrants" to HK are NEW HKers and get a voice too, even if the flows inevitably shifts them towards becoming "just another Chinese city" - as if Chinese cities are all homogeneous. Maybe think about the "why" instead of just complain? Try to understand things instead of just saying they suck? - Can you use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc in China? No. - Do you get a death sentence in China? Yes. - If you say something against the current government can you get arrested? Yes. - Do you know what happened to Jack Ma and many others? - Can you move your hard earned money out of China? And lots more... No it's not the same. HK provided what China mainland couldn't. It was seen as a paradise at 1 point and PRC wanted to get rid of this superiority. It made more $$$, had better jobs, better lifestyle, etc. People wanted to go here like in the "gold rush". The hype train was setting foot on HK = getting rich. Of course this didn't happen. This created a huge divide. It's not that the culture changed. It's not that things moved fast. It's that it's driven away the essence of what made HK great. And it's not like Americans don't complain about Mexicans. Trump even wanted to build his own wall :)
- dirtyid 4y ago
  Nativist attitude predated NSL, when HK had their obscene privileges and responded to rapid shift in culture due to mainland immigration by shitting on the outgroup like many groups in the west in the last decade. The original post touches on why - HK supremacy where taxi drivers can afford to have multiple mainland mistresses like the 90s ended as PRC caught up. Incidentally PRC tier 1/2 is where $$$ money is made now, and plenty of cities have better lifestyles. Even TW topped at 10% of workforce working in mainland when HK peaking at 8% - plenty of well compensated opportunities in PRC for the skilled english fluent HKers, but issue is again, human capita broadly sucks unskilled and mass thinks they're entitled to a lifestyle that's no longer possible when they have to compete with ~1billion others, so they understandably try not to, and hold on in a city with worse gini coefficient / inequality than mainland. At least the welfare system, paid for by being middle men to PRC wealth, affords them higher income than they deserve. Meanwhile, as their relative status declines, they shit on poor mainlanders who have the opportunity to live in HK like most of their forefathers, many simply under family reunification permits, while lash out at nouveau riche mainlanders whose black money they’re happy to launder but god forbid when said cleaned money is flaunted in polite british inspired society. Sure it's not the same anymore, but HK status quo was not sustainable, especially on national security grounds from where they basically had carte blanche to commit treason and be spy capital of Asia/PRC by slagging on NSL implementation for 20 years. Bringing "rule-of-law" to pirate cove sucks for the pirates. Yes they had a very good setup where they can flaunt increasingly unearned superiority to the mainland, but no reason why the mainland should maintain that arrangement in perpetuity, especially when it's received so ungraciously. As for your list, post NSL HK, you can still access foreign social media, death penalty still abolished in HK, you can still talk shit about gov (granted you don't conspire with foreign powers / undermine one country security), like a handful of folks renditioned by PRC post handover is pretty mild for the shenanigans HK was up to pre revolution, and HK still hotbed of capital flight. Yes a lot of perks are justifiably constrained, because they never took the one country part of 1C2S seriously. Again, I get why locals went nativist and think post NSL HK is reduced - and it is - but they're still dripping in special administration privileges. Meanwhile it's great for PRC nationals now, which is frankly how it ought to be. The optimism that mainland would move closer to the HK system instead of vice versa was always hubris to anyone who looked at the numbers. State side, alt right Americans got away with as much as HKer nativists, until they stormed capitol/legco. That's when the hammer drops anywhere.

re-thc 4y ago

> All these arguments defending that only HKers should determine HK culture forgets that PRC "immigrants" to HK are NEW HKers and get a voice too, even if the flows inevitably shifts them towards becoming "just another Chinese city" - as if Chinese cities are all homogeneous. Maybe think about the "why" instead of just complain? Try to understand things instead of just saying they suck? - Can you use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc in China? No. - Do you get a death sentence in China? Yes. - If you say something against the current government can you get arrested? Yes. - Do you know what happened to Jack Ma and many others? - Can you move your hard earned money out of China? And lots more... No it's not the same. HK provided what China mainland couldn't. It was seen as a paradise at 1 point and PRC wanted to get rid of this superiority. It made more $$$, had better jobs, better lifestyle, etc. People wanted to go here like in the "gold rush". The hype train was setting foot on HK = getting rich. Of course this didn't happen. This created a huge divide. It's not that the culture changed. It's not that things moved fast. It's that it's driven away the essence of what made HK great. And it's not like Americans don't complain about Mexicans. Trump even wanted to build his own wall :)

dirtyid 4y ago
Nativist attitude predated NSL, when HK had their obscene privileges and responded to rapid shift in culture due to mainland immigration by shitting on the outgroup like many groups in the west in the last decade. The original post touches on why - HK supremacy where taxi drivers can afford to have multiple mainland mistresses like the 90s ended as PRC caught up. Incidentally PRC tier 1/2 is where $$$ money is made now, and plenty of cities have better lifestyles. Even TW topped at 10% of workforce working in mainland when HK peaking at 8% - plenty of well compensated opportunities in PRC for the skilled english fluent HKers, but issue is again, human capita broadly sucks unskilled and mass thinks they're entitled to a lifestyle that's no longer possible when they have to compete with ~1billion others, so they understandably try not to, and hold on in a city with worse gini coefficient / inequality than mainland. At least the welfare system, paid for by being middle men to PRC wealth, affords them higher income than they deserve. Meanwhile, as their relative status declines, they shit on poor mainlanders who have the opportunity to live in HK like most of their forefathers, many simply under family reunification permits, while lash out at nouveau riche mainlanders whose black money they’re happy to launder but god forbid when said cleaned money is flaunted in polite british inspired society. Sure it's not the same anymore, but HK status quo was not sustainable, especially on national security grounds from where they basically had carte blanche to commit treason and be spy capital of Asia/PRC by slagging on NSL implementation for 20 years. Bringing "rule-of-law" to pirate cove sucks for the pirates. Yes they had a very good setup where they can flaunt increasingly unearned superiority to the mainland, but no reason why the mainland should maintain that arrangement in perpetuity, especially when it's received so ungraciously. As for your list, post NSL HK, you can still access foreign social media, death penalty still abolished in HK, you can still talk shit about gov (granted you don't conspire with foreign powers / undermine one country security), like a handful of folks renditioned by PRC post handover is pretty mild for the shenanigans HK was up to pre revolution, and HK still hotbed of capital flight. Yes a lot of perks are justifiably constrained, because they never took the one country part of 1C2S seriously. Again, I get why locals went nativist and think post NSL HK is reduced - and it is - but they're still dripping in special administration privileges. Meanwhile it's great for PRC nationals now, which is frankly how it ought to be. The optimism that mainland would move closer to the HK system instead of vice versa was always hubris to anyone who looked at the numbers. State side, alt right Americans got away with as much as HKer nativists, until they stormed capitol/legco. That's when the hammer drops anywhere.