3 ms·

>> it's simply not healthy for most people to go without any animal products in their diets >That's not true, sorry. https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-f

>> it's simply not healthy for most people to go without any animal products in their diets >That's not true, sorry. https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-for-all/ https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-for-all/ Please cite a neutral source on the matter. In the end, the food you buy, clothes you wear, even the computer you're using right now, no matter animal based or not, is, as I said, almost certainly shipped to you by some sort of carbon-emitting vehicle, usually one, like a truck, that emits far more carbon than any car you might drive. The industrial processes involved to create these, everything in your life, emit carbon--certainly worse than that, your computer was built with rare earth minerals that were probably extracted with near or actual slave labor. Your existence, on this planet, as a human being, is harmful in some sense to the environment, there is no getting around the fact that you, as an embodied ego, has to cause some level of destruction to the life around you in order to continue living. And there is no getting around the fact that the industrial revolution has radically improved the quality of life around the world for the better, and that nobody, I assume yourself included, as you responded to me on an online forum, would ever abandon all the luxuries it brings. That doesn't mean that we can't improve things as they are. On the contrary, for instance, when you said: >Plant-based is one of the best things an individual can do the lower his carbon footprint That only applies to a developed economy. India has some of the worst pollution in the world on account of their backwards agricultural practices, and their population is something like 50% vegetarian, it is only on account of technology that we have been able to feed the large populations of the US and Europe without destroying local environments. When that technology is employed for the benefit of people who work together to improve their conditions, then society flourishes. But technology, scientific and social development are all developed collectively, and they are the only way to improve our environmental conditions--nobody alone, no individual responsibility, as I said, will change what the mass of society will do. If you let individuals alone to do what they like, on the sole condition they eat plant-based diets, I'm sure you will get something a lot closer to what they have in India than anything else.

myshpa 4y ago
>> it's simply not healthy for most people to go without any animal products in their diets > Please cite a neutral source on the matter. I did. American Dietetic Association It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. NHS UK A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age. British Dietetic Association. It is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages ... World Health Organisation For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. For children, however, and especially those aged 6-24 months, each meal should contain wherever possible two complementary sources of plant protein > In the end, the food you buy, clothes you wear, even the computer We have to choose our battles. > That only applies to a developed economy Yes, I'm talking about western economies. No point talking about Ethiopia, for example. [1] > we have been able to feed the large populations of the US and Europe without destroying local environments Have you read about soil degradation [0] or that animal agriculture is leading driver behind tropical deforestation ? What's the point in celebrating of "saving" of local environments, when we're destroying rainforests in the process? > no individual responsibility, as I said, will change what the mass of society will do Yesterday I was clever, and wanted to change the world. Today I'm wise, so I'm changing myself. Or something along the lines ... No, one individual can't. But many together can. And that was my point. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/daphneewingchow/2020/06/24/earths-rapidly-degrading-soil-is-bad-news-for-human-health/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/daphneewingchow/2020/06/24/eart... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_cons...
- Auracle 4y ago
  Most people with omnivorous diets are pretty far from eating healthy, balanced diets. You expect them to be able to follow "appropriately planned" vegan and vegetarian diets? In no world would I risk my daughter growing up nutritionally deficient because I didn't get the right supplements or yeast paste or whatever. It's far easier to give her a balanced diet and not worry.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    > In no world would I risk my daughter growing up nutritionally deficient Start yourself, learn and experiment. It's not so hard. But I warn you, it's addictive ;) > because I didn't get the right supplements or yeast paste or whatever Just B12 is necessary, either as supplements (vegan are also available) or in fortified foods. Also don't do junk food/raw version of veganism. Other than that ... variety is the answer. What to replace meat with? Try a search engine: https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20replace%20meat%20on%20vegan%20diet https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20replace%20meat... https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20veganize%20recipes https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20veganize%20rec... https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=%3Cmy%20favourite%20recipe%3E%20vegan https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=%3Cmy%20favourite%20recip...
    - freilanzer 4y ago
      > Start yourself, learn and experiment. It's not so hard. But I warn you, it's addictive ;) It's a complex and a time-consuming activity. My ex was vegan and buying groceries was not easy.
      - myshpa 4y ago
        It gets better every year.

myshpa 4y ago

>> it's simply not healthy for most people to go without any animal products in their diets > Please cite a neutral source on the matter. I did. American Dietetic Association It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. NHS UK A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age. British Dietetic Association. It is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages ... World Health Organisation For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. For children, however, and especially those aged 6-24 months, each meal should contain wherever possible two complementary sources of plant protein > In the end, the food you buy, clothes you wear, even the computer We have to choose our battles. > That only applies to a developed economy Yes, I'm talking about western economies. No point talking about Ethiopia, for example. [1] > we have been able to feed the large populations of the US and Europe without destroying local environments Have you read about soil degradation [0] or that animal agriculture is leading driver behind tropical deforestation ? What's the point in celebrating of "saving" of local environments, when we're destroying rainforests in the process? > no individual responsibility, as I said, will change what the mass of society will do Yesterday I was clever, and wanted to change the world. Today I'm wise, so I'm changing myself. Or something along the lines ... No, one individual can't. But many together can. And that was my point. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/daphneewingchow/2020/06/24/earths-rapidly-degrading-soil-is-bad-news-for-human-health/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/daphneewingchow/2020/06/24/eart... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_cons...

Auracle 4y ago
Most people with omnivorous diets are pretty far from eating healthy, balanced diets. You expect them to be able to follow "appropriately planned" vegan and vegetarian diets? In no world would I risk my daughter growing up nutritionally deficient because I didn't get the right supplements or yeast paste or whatever. It's far easier to give her a balanced diet and not worry.
- myshpa 4y ago
  > In no world would I risk my daughter growing up nutritionally deficient Start yourself, learn and experiment. It's not so hard. But I warn you, it's addictive ;) > because I didn't get the right supplements or yeast paste or whatever Just B12 is necessary, either as supplements (vegan are also available) or in fortified foods. Also don't do junk food/raw version of veganism. Other than that ... variety is the answer. What to replace meat with? Try a search engine: https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20replace%20meat%20on%20vegan%20diet https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20replace%20meat... https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20veganize%20recipes https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=how%20to%20veganize%20rec... https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=%3Cmy%20favourite%20recipe%3E%20vegan https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=%3Cmy%20favourite%20recip...
  - freilanzer 4y ago
    > Start yourself, learn and experiment. It's not so hard. But I warn you, it's addictive ;) It's a complex and a time-consuming activity. My ex was vegan and buying groceries was not easy.
    - myshpa 4y ago
      It gets better every year.