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We need preachers. Otherwise you are either completely devoid of advice or you only get advised by someone who is selling you something. EG: if I advocate mar

We need preachers. Otherwise you are either completely devoid of advice or you only get advised by someone who is selling you something. EG: if I advocate marriage (and I do!) it's out of some small ounce of altruism. Economically I don't give half a shit about you and your life circumstances, I never met you and you have no impact on me. But - if I have a chance of sharing something wholeheartedly that has made my life better and I believe will make most people's lives better - I share that out of some pleasure of perhaps helping someone. That's what preaching is. When someone preaches to me, I may not listen but I appreciate what is driving them.

lapcat 4y ago
> Otherwise you are either completely devoid of advice or you only get advised by someone who is selling you something. Alternatively, maybe you don't need any unsolicited advice and can make your own decisions.
- xyzelement 4y ago
  You make your own decisions. However empirically I found that the more convinced one is that they don't need advice the more badly they actually need it. Objectively, if I was deciding on whether I want to be married or not - I'd want to speak to a lot of old dudes who never married and those who did, and understand their experiences. And I'd love to have heard from someone who loved single life like I did but found even deeper meaning in marriage. Doesn't mean I would let them make the decision for me but I would want to know it. And if I was too dumb to ask those questions, I'd hope someone older and wiser would recognize that and help me
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > However empirically I found that the more convinced one is that they don't need advice the more badly they actually need it. Empirically, I found the opposite. ;-) > Objectively, if I was deciding on whether I want to be married or not You decide that subjectively, not objectively. It's actually pretty simple: be single for a while, and see how it feels. If it sucks, then try not to be single. If it's great, then continue. There's also the crucial matter of marriage being a mutual decision between two people, so one can't just decide to get married. I will offer some advice myself though FWIW: if you're not in love with someone, or they're not in love with you, then you probably shouldn't marry them.
    - xyzelement 4y ago
      // It's actually pretty simple: be single for a while, and see how it feels. If it sucks, then try not to be single Perhaps you are not a married dude... I found a huge difference between "not being single" and being married. The life long commitment backing the relationship adds a lot. I wouldn't have expected that a priori. And I think maybe this isn't well understood.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > The life long commitment backing the relationship adds a lot. Marriage isn't exactly a lifelong commitment anymore. Til divorce do we part. In any case, as I discussed in my previous comment, the lifelong commitment can't be one-sided. You don't just make a lifelong commitment to a random person on the street. You have to meet the right person first. Any advice or preaching is irrelevant unless you happen to meet a potential spouse, in which case you may not even need advice, and things will just take their natural course.
        xyzelement 4y ago
        I agree on the need to meet the right person. To meet the right person, you need to BE the right person. Like, imagine you meet someone who wants to get married and have kids and you are unsure. They probably won't stick around to see if and when you are gonna figure it out for yourself. Certainly, can work that way. Not optimal path.
not_the_fda 4y ago
> We need preachers. > Otherwise you are either completely devoid of advice or you only get advised by someone who is selling you something. Oh preachers are selling something.
- xyzelement 4y ago
  I assume you are referring to money raised by Churches from their congregations? If so, you are not following the conversation. We are using preachers to mean those who provide moral/life guidance from their own experience. You can fall that "advocates" or whatever.
waboremo 4y ago
We do not need preachers and we certainly do not need them for something as commonly aspired to as marriage. How out of touch can we truly be here? Marriage and having kids are two of the things universally pushed. We need solutions to the root problems leading to these "lower stats of marriage". Becoming that person who believes he's performing altruism by telling his friends to have kids is not beneficial to anybody, and will likely prevent your relationship with them from developing any deeper than mutual transactions. Everyone KNOWS. What they do not know is whether they'll have a job tomorrow to afford their kids, whether they can overcome their upbringing to provide a healthy environment to raise their kids, etc. So please, enough with the preaching. It might ironically be better if we had more people selling real solutions to these problems.

lapcat 4y ago

> Otherwise you are either completely devoid of advice or you only get advised by someone who is selling you something. Alternatively, maybe you don't need any unsolicited advice and can make your own decisions.

xyzelement 4y ago
You make your own decisions. However empirically I found that the more convinced one is that they don't need advice the more badly they actually need it. Objectively, if I was deciding on whether I want to be married or not - I'd want to speak to a lot of old dudes who never married and those who did, and understand their experiences. And I'd love to have heard from someone who loved single life like I did but found even deeper meaning in marriage. Doesn't mean I would let them make the decision for me but I would want to know it. And if I was too dumb to ask those questions, I'd hope someone older and wiser would recognize that and help me
- lapcat 4y ago
  > However empirically I found that the more convinced one is that they don't need advice the more badly they actually need it. Empirically, I found the opposite. ;-) > Objectively, if I was deciding on whether I want to be married or not You decide that subjectively, not objectively. It's actually pretty simple: be single for a while, and see how it feels. If it sucks, then try not to be single. If it's great, then continue. There's also the crucial matter of marriage being a mutual decision between two people, so one can't just decide to get married. I will offer some advice myself though FWIW: if you're not in love with someone, or they're not in love with you, then you probably shouldn't marry them.
  - xyzelement 4y ago
    // It's actually pretty simple: be single for a while, and see how it feels. If it sucks, then try not to be single Perhaps you are not a married dude... I found a huge difference between "not being single" and being married. The life long commitment backing the relationship adds a lot. I wouldn't have expected that a priori. And I think maybe this isn't well understood.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > The life long commitment backing the relationship adds a lot. Marriage isn't exactly a lifelong commitment anymore. Til divorce do we part. In any case, as I discussed in my previous comment, the lifelong commitment can't be one-sided. You don't just make a lifelong commitment to a random person on the street. You have to meet the right person first. Any advice or preaching is irrelevant unless you happen to meet a potential spouse, in which case you may not even need advice, and things will just take their natural course.
      - xyzelement 4y ago
        I agree on the need to meet the right person. To meet the right person, you need to BE the right person. Like, imagine you meet someone who wants to get married and have kids and you are unsure. They probably won't stick around to see if and when you are gonna figure it out for yourself. Certainly, can work that way. Not optimal path.

not_the_fda 4y ago

> We need preachers. > Otherwise you are either completely devoid of advice or you only get advised by someone who is selling you something. Oh preachers are selling something.

xyzelement 4y ago
I assume you are referring to money raised by Churches from their congregations? If so, you are not following the conversation. We are using preachers to mean those who provide moral/life guidance from their own experience. You can fall that "advocates" or whatever.

waboremo 4y ago

We do not need preachers and we certainly do not need them for something as commonly aspired to as marriage. How out of touch can we truly be here? Marriage and having kids are two of the things universally pushed. We need solutions to the root problems leading to these "lower stats of marriage". Becoming that person who believes he's performing altruism by telling his friends to have kids is not beneficial to anybody, and will likely prevent your relationship with them from developing any deeper than mutual transactions. Everyone KNOWS. What they do not know is whether they'll have a job tomorrow to afford their kids, whether they can overcome their upbringing to provide a healthy environment to raise their kids, etc. So please, enough with the preaching. It might ironically be better if we had more people selling real solutions to these problems.