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The Atlassian engines stalled long ago but somehow they continue to defy gravity. Bitbucket is years behind GitHub. The last time I used it, it was extremely un

The Atlassian engines stalled long ago but somehow they continue to defy gravity. Bitbucket is years behind GitHub. The last time I used it, it was extremely unreliable. Jira is an ugly and laggy mess. Confluence is crap. How are they still alive?

jagged-chisel 4y ago
Jira. Who else has the complexity of Jira?
- 1letterunixname 4y ago
  Phabricator fork we use is way more comprehensive and usable than JIRA.
- vxNsr 4y ago
  servicenow, asana, moday.com even
- chakintosh 4y ago
  Linear
tharkun__ 4y ago
Actually Github only recently gained one of the best features bitbucket has always had, which is a file explorer on the left in PRs. I have no idea how people could use Github without that. Now one thing that Github has is integration. You get lots of stuff integrated for free where Atlassian offerings are separate products. And you don't have to configure much. You can't compare Github to just bitbucket. You have to compare it to a combination of bitbucket, bamboo with Elastic agents and Jira. With a competent admin this is all easily set up and administered. And especially if you are a largish company Jira is the killer vs. Github issues. Especially if said company is somewhat process heavy which Jira is just the best at. So configurable and extensible. Of course a small startup or open source project will prefer the zero fuss Github. And of course as devs we don't care much about those parts. But you did ask why they are still alive.
- peterkelly 4y ago
  I consider the absence of Jira a feature
- dclowd9901 4y ago
  > Actually Github only recently gained one of the best features bitbucket has always had, which is a file explorer on the left in PRs. I have no idea how people could use Github without that. The “find file” button which opens a quick open style prompt makes it as easy to find a location on GitHub as it does when I use VSCode
  - tharkun__ 4y ago
    Finding a file I already know the name of is not a problem. And Ctrl/Cmd+F works just fine for that. What I personally use the file explorer in a PR for is for various other things. * Quick overview of the "complexity" of the change. If I see a huge list of files or files "all over the place" that let's my spidey senses tingle. Much more so than a simple "X files changed" bit of text could. * Navigating around the changeset by most interesting area first. E.g. I might see at a glance that there are changes in three folders of interest and the rest are less important. I don't read PRs from top to bottom like Github tries to make you. I find that unnatural. * I can also easily, visually, jump around between these areas/files to cross references changes without having to remember their names or scrolling a lot. * In large changes (lots of files in lots of places - it happens sometimes) I can collapse folders that are not interesting or that I'm done with. The fact that I already opened a file once does not tell me anything really as I tend to jump around between files to cross reference things. In fact one great feature to have is to mark a file as "unread" again. Which IIRC Crucible had. YMMV as always and Github does have this as well now, so we're good :)
- Kinrany 4y ago
  Does Github know how to deal with stacks of PRs? That's another thing that Bitbucket is surprisingly okay at.
lejo-dave 4y ago
[flagged]
lmm 4y ago
They operate in that space where the people signing the contracts are not the people using their crap.
rodgerd 4y ago
> How are they still alive? Jira is the worst ticketing system that exists other than every other ticketing system. Yes you could use Rally or whatever but it's unlikely that migrating to a different tool is going to solve any problems that you have with Jira. BB is, well... orgs that have BB usually have people who look after BB and don't want you to move, and developers who do want to move, but don't have the heft within their organisation to move to good tools in the fact of demands to push features instead of improve tooling.
flappyeagle 4y ago
Jira is a beast, like salesforce. It is self-perpetuating. It takes so much effort to configure that there are consulting agencies that specialize in it and charge 6-figure sums to configure your instance… after paying that fee, managers need to cover their asses and keep paying for Jira, because sunk costs. At a certain point it’s just an abstract spreadsheet with custom rules no one knows how to maintain, and the team ends up praying to the Jira gods like some ancient religion to keep their dev process going. Anyone who does actually have a handle on it becomes a go-to resource on their team, so they jealously guard their install and never let the company switch try anything else to preserve their status
1letterunixname 4y ago
Corporate momentum.
- sebazzz 4y ago
  That's great isn't it? If you get your company to the level of "no one ever got fired for procuring <company name>".
trissylegs 4y ago
A lot of companies have a lot of eggs in JIRA to move now. That's gonna keep them alive until something that can kill JIRA comes along.

jagged-chisel 4y ago

Jira. Who else has the complexity of Jira?

1letterunixname 4y ago
Phabricator fork we use is way more comprehensive and usable than JIRA.
vxNsr 4y ago
servicenow, asana, moday.com even
chakintosh 4y ago
Linear

tharkun__ 4y ago

Actually Github only recently gained one of the best features bitbucket has always had, which is a file explorer on the left in PRs. I have no idea how people could use Github without that. Now one thing that Github has is integration. You get lots of stuff integrated for free where Atlassian offerings are separate products. And you don't have to configure much. You can't compare Github to just bitbucket. You have to compare it to a combination of bitbucket, bamboo with Elastic agents and Jira. With a competent admin this is all easily set up and administered. And especially if you are a largish company Jira is the killer vs. Github issues. Especially if said company is somewhat process heavy which Jira is just the best at. So configurable and extensible. Of course a small startup or open source project will prefer the zero fuss Github. And of course as devs we don't care much about those parts. But you did ask why they are still alive.

peterkelly 4y ago
I consider the absence of Jira a feature
dclowd9901 4y ago
> Actually Github only recently gained one of the best features bitbucket has always had, which is a file explorer on the left in PRs. I have no idea how people could use Github without that. The “find file” button which opens a quick open style prompt makes it as easy to find a location on GitHub as it does when I use VSCode
- tharkun__ 4y ago
  Finding a file I already know the name of is not a problem. And Ctrl/Cmd+F works just fine for that. What I personally use the file explorer in a PR for is for various other things. * Quick overview of the "complexity" of the change. If I see a huge list of files or files "all over the place" that let's my spidey senses tingle. Much more so than a simple "X files changed" bit of text could. * Navigating around the changeset by most interesting area first. E.g. I might see at a glance that there are changes in three folders of interest and the rest are less important. I don't read PRs from top to bottom like Github tries to make you. I find that unnatural. * I can also easily, visually, jump around between these areas/files to cross references changes without having to remember their names or scrolling a lot. * In large changes (lots of files in lots of places - it happens sometimes) I can collapse folders that are not interesting or that I'm done with. The fact that I already opened a file once does not tell me anything really as I tend to jump around between files to cross reference things. In fact one great feature to have is to mark a file as "unread" again. Which IIRC Crucible had. YMMV as always and Github does have this as well now, so we're good :)
Kinrany 4y ago
Does Github know how to deal with stacks of PRs? That's another thing that Bitbucket is surprisingly okay at.

lejo-dave 4y ago

[flagged]

lmm 4y ago

They operate in that space where the people signing the contracts are not the people using their crap.

rodgerd 4y ago

> How are they still alive? Jira is the worst ticketing system that exists other than every other ticketing system. Yes you could use Rally or whatever but it's unlikely that migrating to a different tool is going to solve any problems that you have with Jira. BB is, well... orgs that have BB usually have people who look after BB and don't want you to move, and developers who do want to move, but don't have the heft within their organisation to move to good tools in the fact of demands to push features instead of improve tooling.

flappyeagle 4y ago

Jira is a beast, like salesforce. It is self-perpetuating. It takes so much effort to configure that there are consulting agencies that specialize in it and charge 6-figure sums to configure your instance… after paying that fee, managers need to cover their asses and keep paying for Jira, because sunk costs. At a certain point it’s just an abstract spreadsheet with custom rules no one knows how to maintain, and the team ends up praying to the Jira gods like some ancient religion to keep their dev process going. Anyone who does actually have a handle on it becomes a go-to resource on their team, so they jealously guard their install and never let the company switch try anything else to preserve their status

1letterunixname 4y ago

Corporate momentum.

sebazzz 4y ago
That's great isn't it? If you get your company to the level of "no one ever got fired for procuring <company name>".

trissylegs 4y ago

A lot of companies have a lot of eggs in JIRA to move now. That's gonna keep them alive until something that can kill JIRA comes along.