4 ms·

While there are very jaded views about cultural superiority and other things like that. I think the truth is probably less cynical. I can move to japan and mar

While there are very jaded views about cultural superiority and other things like that. I think the truth is probably less cynical. I can move to japan and marry a Japanese wife, work for a Japanese company, pay Japanese taxes, and speak fluent Japanese, but I will never be Japanese because my skin is white. People can move to America, and as long as you speak English without an accent, there is an assumption that you are American. If the place you move will assimilate you, then I would call that migrancy. If the place you move will never accept you, then I would call that ex-patriotism. People who move to civil societies migrate, people who move to ethnic societies become ex-patriots. I strongly recommend reading this: https://www.amacad.org/publication/what-does-it-mean-be-american https://www.amacad.org/publication/what-does-it-mean-be-amer... It really puts into perspective conservatism and liberalism by showing their contextual effects on immigration.

kwere 4y ago
funnily, foreigners can never acquire chinese citizenship unless some chinese ancestry and/or enough connection in high places. Legal Naturalizations are a few hundreds a year, on a foreign population of 850 thousands
andrekandre 4y ago
> I will never be Japanese because my skin is white. for some reason i find this statement kind of strange... are you saying "japanese" to mean "fit in as japanese" or "japanese nationality"? > and as long as you speak English without an accent, there is an assumption that you are American. n=1 but this has not been my experience.... > and speak fluent Japanese without accent?
- adastra22 4y ago
  Not the person you are replying to, but I have experience here. It’s both. For most Japanese, nationality is intrinsically tied to ethnicity, and cannot be changed.
- justusw 4y ago
  I would argue that the path to Japanese citizenship is easier than being seen as Japanese. One is a pre-defined legal process, the other one depends on the complexities of what is cultural identity.
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  > n=1 but this has not been my experience.... I don't doubt your experience. I was projecting myself onto others, probably too much... America is a big place. If you don't have that experience in big west coast cities, I would be a bit surprised. Likewise, I would expect well educated folks to also assume that lack of accent means American, not in an intentional way, but an automatic one. There are large swathes of the US that I doubt would see anyone who isn't a white evangelical christian as American. My intention was not to be black and white or absolutist, though I see how what I said reads that way. > without accent? Yes > are you saying "Japanese" to mean "fit in as japanese" or "japanese nationality"? In a way, I meant both. I meant for a Japanese person to apply the word "Japanese" to me casually. To see me as part of "us" when a Japanese person says "us" to mean Japanese. I think if you read the article I linked, what I am trying to express will be clear. It is an extremely meaty read, but I feel like it is somewhat like taking the red pill when it comes to understanding politics and the political forces that govern us. American education has poked at the ideas in that article without providing the philosophical basis. I've heard "diversity" so many times, but never a real, non hand-wavy, explanation of why diversity is important or why we apply energy to it.
nitwit005 4y ago
How accepted you are has nothing to do with you being an immigrant or not. You immigrated. It's the act of living permanently in a foreign country.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  We're talking about a colloquial understanding and use of those words, not a technical definition.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
rendang 4y ago
The word is spelled expatriate, it isn't a derivative of "patriot" btw
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  Thank you for the correction. I think I typed "expatriot" and used the closest suggestion from the right click menu without thinking about it too much. Embarrassing, but such is life.

kwere 4y ago

funnily, foreigners can never acquire chinese citizenship unless some chinese ancestry and/or enough connection in high places. Legal Naturalizations are a few hundreds a year, on a foreign population of 850 thousands

andrekandre 4y ago

> I will never be Japanese because my skin is white. for some reason i find this statement kind of strange... are you saying "japanese" to mean "fit in as japanese" or "japanese nationality"? > and as long as you speak English without an accent, there is an assumption that you are American. n=1 but this has not been my experience.... > and speak fluent Japanese without accent?

adastra22 4y ago
Not the person you are replying to, but I have experience here. It’s both. For most Japanese, nationality is intrinsically tied to ethnicity, and cannot be changed.
justusw 4y ago
I would argue that the path to Japanese citizenship is easier than being seen as Japanese. One is a pre-defined legal process, the other one depends on the complexities of what is cultural identity.
hayst4ck 4y ago
> n=1 but this has not been my experience.... I don't doubt your experience. I was projecting myself onto others, probably too much... America is a big place. If you don't have that experience in big west coast cities, I would be a bit surprised. Likewise, I would expect well educated folks to also assume that lack of accent means American, not in an intentional way, but an automatic one. There are large swathes of the US that I doubt would see anyone who isn't a white evangelical christian as American. My intention was not to be black and white or absolutist, though I see how what I said reads that way. > without accent? Yes > are you saying "Japanese" to mean "fit in as japanese" or "japanese nationality"? In a way, I meant both. I meant for a Japanese person to apply the word "Japanese" to me casually. To see me as part of "us" when a Japanese person says "us" to mean Japanese. I think if you read the article I linked, what I am trying to express will be clear. It is an extremely meaty read, but I feel like it is somewhat like taking the red pill when it comes to understanding politics and the political forces that govern us. American education has poked at the ideas in that article without providing the philosophical basis. I've heard "diversity" so many times, but never a real, non hand-wavy, explanation of why diversity is important or why we apply energy to it.

nitwit005 4y ago

How accepted you are has nothing to do with you being an immigrant or not. You immigrated. It's the act of living permanently in a foreign country.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hayst4ck 4y ago
We're talking about a colloquial understanding and use of those words, not a technical definition.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

rendang 4y ago

The word is spelled expatriate, it isn't a derivative of "patriot" btw

hayst4ck 4y ago
Thank you for the correction. I think I typed "expatriot" and used the closest suggestion from the right click menu without thinking about it too much. Embarrassing, but such is life.