5 ms·

Awesome! Another accord that can be ignored just like all the others that came before! I love bureaucracy and diplomacy... They make us look so productive whil

Awesome! Another accord that can be ignored just like all the others that came before! I love bureaucracy and diplomacy... They make us look so productive while once in a while real change comes along. Forgive my pessimism, but I've seen too many international accords that haven't been worth the paper they were printed on (with loads of media coverage and fanfare) during my lifetime.

exq 4y ago
Montreal Protocol worked.
- voisin 4y ago
  Anything else since 1987?
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Various protocols under CLRTAP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Long-Range_Transboundary_Air_Pollution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Long-Range_Tra... Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation (the basis for modern high seas piracy law) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_for_the_Suppression_of_Unlawful_Acts_against_the_Safety_of_Maritime_Navigation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_for_the_Suppressi... Wellington Convention (prohibition on long drift net fishing in the Pacific) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_Convention 1990 Chemical Weapons Accord (bilateral between US and Russia) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Chemical_Weapons_Accord https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Chemical_Weapons_Accord UNFCCC (basis of UN climate negotiations) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Framework_Convention_on_Climate_Change https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Framework_Con... Convention on Biological Diversity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Biological_Diversity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Biological_Div... Chemical Weapons Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention Aarhus Protocol on Persistent Organic Pollutants https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarhus_Protocol_on_Persistent_Organic_Pollutants https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarhus_Protocol_on_Persisten... Kyoto Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (establishes the ICC) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute ... and then everything after 2000 too. I know it's en vogue on HN to bash the UN/international diplomacy as useless, but it's illogical to expect a lot of smart folks, working hard for enough time, not to produce useful things. And there's a lot of tragedy-of-the-commons problems which the UN is an excellent forum to solve.
- mrangle 4y ago
  The Montreal Protocol didn't require military enforcement. This will. And this is its significance.
_8j50 4y ago
Would you instead favor starting a war over this? Because this is reality, accords and treaties are tools of diplomacy and they are binding, you can sue other nations or implement other measures against them as a collective of signatories where without the accord you would act unilaterally and without cause. I think you, like many, mistakenly assume that there is some law or authority over all nations.
KarlKemp 4y ago
That’s just mindless contrarianism. There are plenty of successes of international cooperation. Of the top of my head: protection of the arctic and Antarctic, restrictions in the trade of ivory, tropical woods, big-game hunting (and trophies) etc. Lots of fishery agreements, nuclear testing ban, standards for offshore oil drilling, double-hull tankers etc. That’s just the tip of the iceberg and only wrt the environment. EU and NAFTA are also international agreements that have teeth, as is the Berne convention on copyright (even if you don’t like it). Unicode is the UN in action as is the boat that will pick you up if you happen to get stranded on a deserted island (and have the necessary, and standardized, beacon). If you’re a Mongolian in a Mexican jail or a Mexican in a Mongolian jail, your embassy will be informed and allowed to render legal support, thanks to an international agreement to that effect. If you’re being subjected to cluster munitions, your foe is one of the few people on earth that wouldn’t enjoy a trip to the Netherlands. If you find yourself being extradited to The Hague, the plane you’re traveling on will conform to internationally agreed safety standards. A kilogram, meter, second, or joule is the same as your trading partners‘, thanks ISO, and the T in NATO seems to be some mighty piece of paper, considering how it manages to scare the shirtless man shitless.
- weq 4y ago
  The phenom is called "Paper Parks", Costa Rica for instance leads the world in eco washing / fisheries corruption. https://octogroup.org/news/paper-parks-why-they-happen-and-what-can-be-done-change-them/ https://octogroup.org/news/paper-parks-why-they-happen-and-w... https://www.cremacr.org/en/new-report-finds-costa-rica-is-failing-to-sustainably-govern-fisheries-and-marine-biodiversity/ https://www.cremacr.org/en/new-report-finds-costa-rica-is-fa...
- OtomotO 4y ago
  My contrarianism isn't mindless, mind you!
permo-w 4y ago
better than nothing
praxulus 4y ago
What do you suggest we do instead?

exq 4y ago

Montreal Protocol worked.

voisin 4y ago
Anything else since 1987?
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Various protocols under CLRTAP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Long-Range_Transboundary_Air_Pollution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Long-Range_Tra... Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation (the basis for modern high seas piracy law) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_for_the_Suppression_of_Unlawful_Acts_against_the_Safety_of_Maritime_Navigation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_for_the_Suppressi... Wellington Convention (prohibition on long drift net fishing in the Pacific) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_Convention 1990 Chemical Weapons Accord (bilateral between US and Russia) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Chemical_Weapons_Accord https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Chemical_Weapons_Accord UNFCCC (basis of UN climate negotiations) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Framework_Convention_on_Climate_Change https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Framework_Con... Convention on Biological Diversity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Biological_Diversity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Biological_Div... Chemical Weapons Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention Aarhus Protocol on Persistent Organic Pollutants https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarhus_Protocol_on_Persistent_Organic_Pollutants https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarhus_Protocol_on_Persisten... Kyoto Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (establishes the ICC) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute ... and then everything after 2000 too. I know it's en vogue on HN to bash the UN/international diplomacy as useless, but it's illogical to expect a lot of smart folks, working hard for enough time, not to produce useful things. And there's a lot of tragedy-of-the-commons problems which the UN is an excellent forum to solve.
mrangle 4y ago
The Montreal Protocol didn't require military enforcement. This will. And this is its significance.

_8j50 4y ago

Would you instead favor starting a war over this? Because this is reality, accords and treaties are tools of diplomacy and they are binding, you can sue other nations or implement other measures against them as a collective of signatories where without the accord you would act unilaterally and without cause. I think you, like many, mistakenly assume that there is some law or authority over all nations.

KarlKemp 4y ago

That’s just mindless contrarianism. There are plenty of successes of international cooperation. Of the top of my head: protection of the arctic and Antarctic, restrictions in the trade of ivory, tropical woods, big-game hunting (and trophies) etc. Lots of fishery agreements, nuclear testing ban, standards for offshore oil drilling, double-hull tankers etc. That’s just the tip of the iceberg and only wrt the environment. EU and NAFTA are also international agreements that have teeth, as is the Berne convention on copyright (even if you don’t like it). Unicode is the UN in action as is the boat that will pick you up if you happen to get stranded on a deserted island (and have the necessary, and standardized, beacon). If you’re a Mongolian in a Mexican jail or a Mexican in a Mongolian jail, your embassy will be informed and allowed to render legal support, thanks to an international agreement to that effect. If you’re being subjected to cluster munitions, your foe is one of the few people on earth that wouldn’t enjoy a trip to the Netherlands. If you find yourself being extradited to The Hague, the plane you’re traveling on will conform to internationally agreed safety standards. A kilogram, meter, second, or joule is the same as your trading partners‘, thanks ISO, and the T in NATO seems to be some mighty piece of paper, considering how it manages to scare the shirtless man shitless.

weq 4y ago
The phenom is called "Paper Parks", Costa Rica for instance leads the world in eco washing / fisheries corruption. https://octogroup.org/news/paper-parks-why-they-happen-and-what-can-be-done-change-them/ https://octogroup.org/news/paper-parks-why-they-happen-and-w... https://www.cremacr.org/en/new-report-finds-costa-rica-is-failing-to-sustainably-govern-fisheries-and-marine-biodiversity/ https://www.cremacr.org/en/new-report-finds-costa-rica-is-fa...
OtomotO 4y ago
My contrarianism isn't mindless, mind you!

permo-w 4y ago

better than nothing

praxulus 4y ago

What do you suggest we do instead?