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It is maybe the cause you describe well: > policing in America is hugely broken and there are well-documented racial elements to that failure, vs > it spread

It is maybe the cause you describe well: > policing in America is hugely broken and there are well-documented racial elements to that failure, vs > it spread due to men wearing straw hats past the unofficial date that was deemed socially acceptable, that made your comparison a bit triggering, and even if you did not mean it, not totally incomprehensible? Those two also fail to compare in other dimensions, e.g. size, so not sure if worth it at all..

joenot443 4y ago
I'm not the one who originally made the comparison and I completely agree; the two are so different they _shouldn't_ be compared. Regardless of how one feels about the motives or the methods, I think it's safe to say it was a fairly watershed moment for the US whose importance shouldn't be downplayed.
- DubiousPusher 4y ago
  Can I say that my goal was not to compare the two in an absolutist way. There is a narrative that developed about the 2020 protests that they were categorically different from the America's past because some of them spilled over into violent episodes. The talk was borderline existential regarding them as something new in American society. They were frequently unfavorably compared to the "peaceful" civil rights protests of the 60s. But those protests were only peaceful in the small cherry-picked set that progressive historians and non-violence aligned activists have succeeded in turning into the canonical story of America. The civil rights movement in fact did have episodes of ambiguous violence. Critics at the time cited these incidents as reasons the protests should stop or wait. King references these critics directly in the Letter from the Birmingham Jail. It's barely buried history. What's more, the protests occured amongst a back drop of constant deadly violence and struggle over all kinds of grievance and issues. Forget the risk of an antifa punching you in the jaw. There were people with deadly weapons, ready to do deadly violence or at least advocating it. From The Weather Underground to The Black Panthers to MOVE to biker gangs and on. But the popular narrative wishes to ignor all this. How many times during 202 did I hear some boomer say, "look what we got done with civil rights without violence." But they have imbibed the Forest Gumpification of history. This myth is used to create an impossible standard, according to which, any incidental violence immediately discredits change. I point to The Straw Hats because the are the most blatant tell to the law that America has a 'peaceful' past. That people are now somehow more unreasonable, easily triggered to violence and with thinner justification for their demands.

joenot443 4y ago

I'm not the one who originally made the comparison and I completely agree; the two are so different they _shouldn't_ be compared. Regardless of how one feels about the motives or the methods, I think it's safe to say it was a fairly watershed moment for the US whose importance shouldn't be downplayed.

DubiousPusher 4y ago
Can I say that my goal was not to compare the two in an absolutist way. There is a narrative that developed about the 2020 protests that they were categorically different from the America's past because some of them spilled over into violent episodes. The talk was borderline existential regarding them as something new in American society. They were frequently unfavorably compared to the "peaceful" civil rights protests of the 60s. But those protests were only peaceful in the small cherry-picked set that progressive historians and non-violence aligned activists have succeeded in turning into the canonical story of America. The civil rights movement in fact did have episodes of ambiguous violence. Critics at the time cited these incidents as reasons the protests should stop or wait. King references these critics directly in the Letter from the Birmingham Jail. It's barely buried history. What's more, the protests occured amongst a back drop of constant deadly violence and struggle over all kinds of grievance and issues. Forget the risk of an antifa punching you in the jaw. There were people with deadly weapons, ready to do deadly violence or at least advocating it. From The Weather Underground to The Black Panthers to MOVE to biker gangs and on. But the popular narrative wishes to ignor all this. How many times during 202 did I hear some boomer say, "look what we got done with civil rights without violence." But they have imbibed the Forest Gumpification of history. This myth is used to create an impossible standard, according to which, any incidental violence immediately discredits change. I point to The Straw Hats because the are the most blatant tell to the law that America has a 'peaceful' past. That people are now somehow more unreasonable, easily triggered to violence and with thinner justification for their demands.