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you can typically work up It is hard to work up more than 15-25%. if the number they give is way too small you understand what you're dealing with This is wh

you can typically work up It is hard to work up more than 15-25%. if the number they give is way too small you understand what you're dealing with This is where stating the number first can help you. Companies don't necessarily know your value and can't usually tell just from your resume. So when you are so far apart, you are suggesting the company just sucks. It could be that they just don't know what you're worth. Bottomline: If a company has $70,000 set aside for the position, if you ask for $120,000 before they tell you the $70,000, you have a better shot than after they have shared and associated $70,000 with you.

kls 15y ago
I agree, I always put the number out there, and it is always top of market + 20%. Doing so sets the stage for accepting nothing less than top of market. I am willing to go to 90% of top of market so it gives them 30% to feel like they got a deal. I have seen that most try to slice 10% to 15% off of my request because they too have researched what the top of market rate is.
- tnicola 15y ago
  That means that your work has to be the top of the market. It is impossible for that to be true of everyone. Therefore, 90-95% of the people that employ the strategy will be out to lunch and that just may be enough for me to walk away from you as a candidate.
  - badclient 15y ago
    That means that your work has to be the top of the market. Well, if you work is top of the market, your average base will be higher to begin with. It is already factored into the market avg. The 10-25% flexibility is something you can extract purely from negotiation IMO.
    - tnicola 15y ago
      It is already factored into the market avg. Original poster said top, not average. To illustrate my point, I will give you an example. Let's say market range for a position is 60K - 80K. To me, that means that the best people are getting 80K to start with and those who are really good at what they do and have been in the same company for some time can be making up to 90K for the same job. So, if someone comes off the street and asks me for 96K for that same job, it is going to look a little bit off. It tells me a few things: they do not know what is actually going rate for their job or that they have been overpaid in their previous position, or that they are pushing to see how far they can go, or that they don't actually want 96k, which goes against the original point of being honest. My point is, none of the thoughts that pop into my head are positive about you. And I am not sure that it is the message you want to give a potential employee.
      - badclient 15y ago
        If the market range for a position is 60-80K and a guy asks for 96K, it is very common to think "Is this guy perhaps worth it?". I say this from experience. I asked 100K for a job and the company came back to me turning it down and stating they only have 60-70K allocated for it. I countered with 90, told them how I am different from the other candidates, and got a favorable offer ... too bad it was a few hours after I had just accepted another offer.
        tnicola 15y ago
        Exceptions are always possible. If you can make the arguement that it is the case, then by all means. That would be the point of negotiation. If I call you on a discrepancy and you have a proof that you have specific expertise that are worth the difference, the ball is then in my court to evaluate if we want to pay for it and if it is indeed worth it. However, even if I determine you're worth it, I will counter with a trial period and say (in writing) that you will get your top offer when and if you prove your worth to me and to the company. I am curious to know how would you react to that type of counter, if you don't mind sharing. The original comment, though, lead me to believe that the poster does this as a rule, asking for 120% of the top and expecting to get 90%. And while it is often the case that these hiring managers do play the game, I am merely drawing the attention that there are people out there like me (albeit probably not very common) who are not going to look favourably at ridiculous salary requests. I can't help my gut reaction. I do, however, make room to change my mind and if there is meat behind your request, I will readjust my thinking. If I catch you in a bluff, however, because you think it's what you're supposed to do...outcome - not so good. :-)

kls 15y ago

I agree, I always put the number out there, and it is always top of market + 20%. Doing so sets the stage for accepting nothing less than top of market. I am willing to go to 90% of top of market so it gives them 30% to feel like they got a deal. I have seen that most try to slice 10% to 15% off of my request because they too have researched what the top of market rate is.

tnicola 15y ago
That means that your work has to be the top of the market. It is impossible for that to be true of everyone. Therefore, 90-95% of the people that employ the strategy will be out to lunch and that just may be enough for me to walk away from you as a candidate.
- badclient 15y ago
  That means that your work has to be the top of the market. Well, if you work is top of the market, your average base will be higher to begin with. It is already factored into the market avg. The 10-25% flexibility is something you can extract purely from negotiation IMO.
  - tnicola 15y ago
    It is already factored into the market avg. Original poster said top, not average. To illustrate my point, I will give you an example. Let's say market range for a position is 60K - 80K. To me, that means that the best people are getting 80K to start with and those who are really good at what they do and have been in the same company for some time can be making up to 90K for the same job. So, if someone comes off the street and asks me for 96K for that same job, it is going to look a little bit off. It tells me a few things: they do not know what is actually going rate for their job or that they have been overpaid in their previous position, or that they are pushing to see how far they can go, or that they don't actually want 96k, which goes against the original point of being honest. My point is, none of the thoughts that pop into my head are positive about you. And I am not sure that it is the message you want to give a potential employee.
    - badclient 15y ago
      If the market range for a position is 60-80K and a guy asks for 96K, it is very common to think "Is this guy perhaps worth it?". I say this from experience. I asked 100K for a job and the company came back to me turning it down and stating they only have 60-70K allocated for it. I countered with 90, told them how I am different from the other candidates, and got a favorable offer ... too bad it was a few hours after I had just accepted another offer.
      - tnicola 15y ago
        Exceptions are always possible. If you can make the arguement that it is the case, then by all means. That would be the point of negotiation. If I call you on a discrepancy and you have a proof that you have specific expertise that are worth the difference, the ball is then in my court to evaluate if we want to pay for it and if it is indeed worth it. However, even if I determine you're worth it, I will counter with a trial period and say (in writing) that you will get your top offer when and if you prove your worth to me and to the company. I am curious to know how would you react to that type of counter, if you don't mind sharing. The original comment, though, lead me to believe that the poster does this as a rule, asking for 120% of the top and expecting to get 90%. And while it is often the case that these hiring managers do play the game, I am merely drawing the attention that there are people out there like me (albeit probably not very common) who are not going to look favourably at ridiculous salary requests. I can't help my gut reaction. I do, however, make room to change my mind and if there is meat behind your request, I will readjust my thinking. If I catch you in a bluff, however, because you think it's what you're supposed to do...outcome - not so good. :-)