7 ms·

Is it OK to steal “Downton Abbey”?

59 points by apress 15y ago

Chrono 15y ago
The same problem of course exists for all us non Americans. Most American TV series air months or years later, if they air at all. I would love to be able to watch the latest and greatest in entertainment within a day of it airing but that is not possible to do with legal means so 'everyone' turns to piracy.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  Indeed. Americans: welcome to our world. The world, in fact.
  - ghc 15y ago
    This isn't new to America. Anyone who's a fan of Japanese or Korean TV has exactly the same problems Europeans experience with American TV.
- cf0ed2aa-bdf5 15y ago
  Exactly my thoughts. I'm German so even if my favorite shows finally made it to Germany after years they are usually butchered by a sloppy at best dubbing. If I insisted on English audio I'd have to wait another year to buy the DVDs. I would love to watch my favorite show with ads or even pay for some of them to be able to support them but unfortunately that's just not possible as of now.
  - kxs 15y ago
    Same here, I don't watch dubbed television shows/movies. The only alternatives are TNT and FOX atm, at least with sky you have dual audio.
    - Vivtek 15y ago
      Oh, God, the German dubs for Star Trek: The Next Generation were horrible - they sounded like the same guy did everybody's voices (OK, except for Troi, fortunately). And I'll never forget the debut of the Cosby Show in Germany and wanting to show my college friends this show I really liked - and realizing that without Bill Cosby's voice, it was utterly, hopelessly worthless. Not the first time Germans looked at me like I was crazy, but it was a formative experience.
- kxs 15y ago
  Let's hope tv series like "Touch" have success with their approach, Kiefer Sutherland said they are aiming for a 3 three day window (global broadcast).
  - rickmb 15y ago
    That's not really new, here in the Netherlands the gap between US and local broadcasts has now often been reduced to less than a week for certain series. A 3 day window however is still too long for shows with real fans that want to participate in the global conversation. It may work for procedurals and sitcoms, but not for shows with big stories and cliffhangers like Lost, 24 and such. Never mind the fact that you still get all the disadvantages of a commercial broadcast: fixed time, annoying station logo's, subtitles (or dubbing depending on the country) and most of all: incessant commercial breaks. No thanks.
    - kxs 15y ago
      Well, in Germany it usually takes at least 3 to 6 months and those are mainstream series like Desperate Housewives or Grey's Anatomy.
- coob 15y ago
  With the later seasons of Lost, Sky One (UK) aired the newest episodes the night after their US premiere, supposedly to cut down on Sky losing viewers to pirating. Anecdotally, it worked.
  - Kudos 15y ago
    They aired Battlestar Galactica a few hours ahead of the US. I'd imagine the narrower gap put an even deeper impact into piracy.
    - rmc 15y ago
      Actually BSG was aired in the UK a few months before the USA. Season 1 started in October 2004 in UK and January 2005 in USA. People in the USA must have pirated it loads before it was shown on TV. And yet the TV numbers were still very impressive. This is evidence that piracy doesn't affect sales/viewing figures.
      - rickmb 15y ago
        Dutch TV aired BSG months later. Result: everybody that wanted to see the show had already pirated it, and the viewing figures were miserable. This has happened with several popular shows.
        rmc 15y ago
        Wonder what makes it different? The USA AFAIK had good viewership figures.
        justincormack 15y ago
        No one in the US would expect tohave to pirate a US program from abroad before first run. In the rest of the world it is just routine.
- rythie 15y ago
  What is particularly annoying, if you like the Facebook account and they tell you about the upcoming episode, for example Big Bang Theory which won't be on for a couple of months.
  - cf0ed2aa-bdf5 15y ago
    What's really annoying to me is that they post previews for the upcoming episodes of for example The Big Bang Theory, make you watch the ads and then tell you that the video is not available in your region.
- Vivtek 15y ago
  What always ticked me off was the same "non-American" rule applied while we were living in Puerto Rico - which is part of the United States. My kids were watching American cable and weren't able to access the online episodes because we weren't on the continent.
dnlhoust 15y ago
It's interesting that this topic is something article worthy to the US; I'm not taking a swing at the US or salon.com. But as someone from the UK, this is the norm for a good majority of TV shows. I'd even make the assumption that if someone told me they can't wait for the next episode of a TV show; that they're waiting for it to become available online for download
- civild 15y ago
  This, exactly. Most of the TV shows I do watch are American and are shown on TV the next day at best, and never at worst. I don't feel bad downloading and viewing something that I'm already paying for to get it in advance, and I'm certain millions of others on both sides of the pond feel the same.
- rmc 15y ago
  Yep, USA welcome to what Hollywood does to the rest of us.
- alan_cx 15y ago
  Im in the UK. I regularly download US TV shows at US pace. Take a show like Lost, I wanted to be in the online discussions. Unless you are at US pace, you are basically screwed. I pay for all the channels that shows like Lost will eventually appear on. So, as far as I am concerned, my habit is perfectly legit. Lost specifically got to the point where it was aired with in 24 hrs of the US broadcast, and that was fine. In practice I would see the download with in that time span anyway. This is the way to go to stop people downloading. Problem is, downloading turns out to be easier and more convenient that actually being told when to sit and watch, and how. Its easier than using the broadcasters on line offerings. So, I still download. Give me a "legit" way that is a quick, easy and free as torrents, etc, I'll use it like a shot. As for people in the US downloading Downtown, well fair enough. Its should be as available to them as I want it to be here.
jeffool 15y ago
The topic reminds me of a presentation by Mark Pesce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxCoCTc3T5Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxCoCTc3T5Q In it he talks about how piracy has helped some shows, and alternate forms of publishing (physical media, online). Keep in mind that he's speaking from an Australian viewpoint and the economics are slightly different in this case mostly discussing content produced for another market... But it could be good stuff for you Kill Hollywood thinkers.
mgkimsal 15y ago
“If they aired a day later,” she says, “illegal pirating would be going on.” Probably, for different reasons, but likely not anywhere as near as it is today. If you knew stuff would be on in the UK on Th night, and you could see it uncut and unreformatted 26 hours later, you'd be far less likely to have initially bothered to go search it out. I submit that the awareness and convenience of online 'piracy' of TV shows has been driven, in large part, by the frustration people felt by knowing they'd have to wait months in the first place. Now that there's a whole generation of people who already know how to 'pirate', they're not going to turn back (certainly not without a fight - SOPA, etc) but the content industry has themselves to blame for this again. We gave up on BBC America back around 2004/2005 because they insisted on showing repeats instead of decent shows, and not explaining themselves. There was one week where they showed a combined 96 hours of "ground force", "changing rooms" and one other insipid home reality show. 96 hours of repeats of just 3 shows. Meanwhile EastEnders was scaled back and they showed less of that, and kept falling further behind. Eventually, after about a year or so of EastEnders in 2004, in to 2005, they started showing repeats of EastEnders from 2004 in place of the then-current episodes. It was as if they thought people wouldn't notice (or care) about getting repeats of a year-old ongoing soap episode. We quit even trying to support BBC America at that point, and turned to full scale torrents of any UK shows we wanted. In the absence of being able to simply pay a UK TV license fee directly to the appropriate office, we'll just pirate. I realize that $300 still wouldn't cover all the potential ads and such ITV gets, but it'd be a strong start. Make the BBC channels, ITV, and a couple other UK channels available as a UK package on DirecTV or Dish, charge $49/month, and I'd happily pay, assuming they were uncut feeds.
- e40 15y ago
  Agreed. As it is, DirecTV wants me to pay $85/mo for essentially 4-5 channels. I don't want: * those other 996 channels * your DVR to keep adding back stations once I remove them from the hunt list * your crappy DVR software--TiVo was fine and you replaced it with shit What I want is a way to pay a reasonable price for the few shows I watch. I can't do that. So, what I do instead is torrent the few shows I watch. People will pirate until the experience you give them as paying customers is equal to or better than their pirating experience.
pistoriusp 15y ago
Is it illegal to purchase a VPN account in the states and pay for a Netflix subscription?
- shinratdr 15y ago
  If it's convenient or solves your problem, it's illegal. Just use that as a rule of thumb.
- p0ppe 15y ago
  You would probably need a credit card tied to a us-based address as well.
  - Kudos 15y ago
    Nope.
- officemonkey 15y ago
  When I lived in Europe from 2006-2008, I was able to purchase and download episodes online from Apple iTunes with a U.S. Credit Card. I was unable to access Hulu or Netflix streaming when they debuted, which made me sad.
- rmc 15y ago
  It is probably not illegal to purchase a VPN connection. However check the Netflix terms of use. They may specify that you can only access it if you are located in the USA. If you are using a VPN you are accessing a computer system without authorisation, which is illegal in the USA (and most other countries). You are unlikely to be convicted of it (though it did sorta happen once in the USA).
- AgentConundrum 15y ago
  It's not illegal, but it is against Netflix's TOS: > You may not circumvent, remove, alter, deactivate, degrade or thwart any of the content protections in the Netflix service. Using a VPN to access content from another region would be considered circumventing content protections.
Hemospectrum 15y ago
In markets where even a delayed rebroadcast is vanishingly unlikely, online streaming is absolutely thriving. For example, a whole lot of anime hits Crunchyroll and Hulu before the fansub groups ever get a crack at it. These sites and a few others are also expanding into live action Japanese and Korean TV. However, I think this only works when there's very little competition (from broadcasters) for individual shows. The BBC is probably in the worst position possible for an attempt to move to this model due to interplay between company-wide policy and the negotiating power of its international counterparts. Previous agreements with cable companies can't help much either.
officemonkey 15y ago
A. Copyright infringement is not stealing. B. The internet thrives precisely because it is transnational. This allows for quality programming to span the world. C. There is an international market for current episodes of popular TV shows. There is such a large market that people are willing to commit copyright infringement. D. Just because your business model doesn't adapt to the market, does not automatically mean that your business model deserves protection in the market. E. Media content creators have long protected their international licensing agreements with anti-customer technology like DVD Regions. F. At the end of the day, the customer doesn't care. They will find a better product in the market. G. It's my experience that people who pirate out of this frustration, are happy to pay when it is available. The person who pirated the Christmas Special would have paid money to see it, it was just not available at any price.
- hyperbovine 15y ago
  The episodes are available for free on pbs.org. I personally would not pay for it. But then again I was happy to wait for it to show up stateside.
- jgfoot 15y ago
  OK, copyright infringement isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. And copyright infringement is illegal. I am sorry that some people are "frustrated" because they cannot see their favorite programs at the same time that people in other parts of the world can see them. But what a remarkably morally shaky ground upon which to break the law! My great-grandfather stole food once; his father died when he was eight, and his mother couldn't support the family. Today, people steal--sorry, copyright infringe--Downton Abbey because they can't wait to find out whether Lady Mary is going to marry Matthew.
  - njs12345 15y ago
    Presumably, your great-grandfather also jaywalked at some point in his life. I think it's valid to argue that we have a moral obligation to obey the law, but I'm not convinced most people act as though we do if the crime may be victimless and there's a small chance of getting caught..
stevoski 15y ago
A friend of mine works in BBC sales. He tells me that selling rights for their TV shows to channels in various countries is highly lucrative for the BBC. He also tells me that he understands this model won't last much longer. But until then, for economic reasons, the BBC doesn't want to make it too easy for you to watch their content directly in your non-UK country without going through a local channel.
- jonnathanson 15y ago
  International sales, distribution, and licensing has been a major cash cow of the TV industry for decades. It works in the other direction, as well, i.e., from the USA to the UK (and to other countries). Your friend is correct in that the appeal of this cash cow is why the industry will fight tooth and nail before they have to put her out to pasture. The model is going to become irrelevant sooner or later, but for the time being, it's still paying off handsomely. It will go, but it won't go quietly.
  - digikata 15y ago
    The crazy part is that they could replace it with a new cash cow by simply charging for convenient access. Not only that, but you could deal with fewer middlemen, get more control over your own product distribution.
- officemonkey 15y ago
  How lucrative? As lucrative as a £1 rental of each episode of Downton Abbey or Dr. Who available the day after it is broadcast? Because that's the price point I would pay to watch a current episode.
- justincormack 15y ago
  They keep talking about releasing iplayer as a global subscription service. It will clearly happen sometime soon.
tristan_louis 15y ago
Is it OK to steal content from Hacker News? Is it OK to republish someone's blog post under your own name? Is it OK to steal free coupons from your neighbors' mailbox? Is it OK to steal free phones provided by phone companies (mostly feature phones) ? If your answer to any of the above is Yes, you probably will think that stealing "Downtown Abbey" is OK. Otherwise, think really hard and try to explain the difference.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  What does "steal from HN" even mean? The blog example isn't valid: nobody is taking shows and putting their names in the credits (at least, pertaining to this conversation). Coupons and phones are physical items that have very different rules and mores associated with them.
tptacek 15y ago
I pirated Downton. I pay for BBCA; moreover, when stuff is available on iTMS I buy, even when I buy the premium cable channel it runs on, even when it's available on VOD, even (for instance, with The Sopranos) when I own much of the physical DVD media for it! I've spent many many hundreds of dollars on iTMS for content that I already had legitimate paid-for access to. This is of course rationalization; the BBC is entitled to monetize their content however they see fit. That's capitalism. I rely on congruent norms, contracts, &c to make my living, and so do you --- even if you don't sell your own software directly, your wages are effectively subsidized by the defensibility of IP; we are all of us in the business of selling content for (on the face of it) unjustifiable premiums. But whatever, I'm human. This is perhaps a good reason for media companies to stop doing region encoding and staggered releases and such; it socializes people to piracy. If you've even got me torrenting stuff, you're probably doing something very wrong.
- dminor 15y ago
  > If you've even got me torrenting stuff, you're probably doing something very wrong. I never pirate and even I was sorely tempted. They've managed to produce a hit show that people are excited about, but then expect people to ignore that excitement and delay gratification for months. I feel like I'm one of those kids in the marshmallow experiment.
- soneil 15y ago
  I'm in pretty much the same position. I pay for cable, and extra for their DVR. I pay for netflix. I pay for the BBC's international variant of iplayer, even if it is device-specific. Every chance they've given me, I've paid. And I still end up 'stealing' content because geolocked business models don't work anymore. If they can't adapt to us, we'll have to adapt to them.
- girlvinyl 15y ago
  Sorry to be terribly pedantic, but the BBC does not run or produce Downton Abbey. Downton Abbey airs on iTV in the UK.
  - tptacek 15y ago
c1sc0 15y ago
The irony is that if ACTA passes we'll probably have to VPN INTO China to freely watch delicious delicious western TV shows on PPStream and the likes.
georgieporgie 15y ago
I pirate Top Gear. BBC America butchers the hell out of the program. For starters, because they can't be bothered to secure music rights worldwide, they replace all the well-chosen, synchronized music with awful public domain stuff. Assuming we're all uninterested and intolerant, they often cut out the guest interviews, despite the usually witty banter being enjoyable on its own. Finally, in the ultimate insult, before every ad break they actually show you the punchline to the next segment! They literally ruin each and every show, segment by segment! If I'm watching BBC America, it's because I want to watch the BBC. I don't want to watch some watered down, Americanized version. I truly don't whether they hired dumb Americans, or they're just snobby Brits who think Americans are too dumb for their shows. Either way, it's insulting and not very entertaining. So, I can't speak for Downtown Abbey, but if it's treated anything like Top Gear, I can't imagine why they would think we'd want to watch their delayed, edited, watered down slop. Incidentally, I have looked into legal channels for purchasing Top Gear and they're all edited. The only one that, I think, is legitimately original is the British-release of the DVD, but I'm pretty sure that I would be technically committing a crime by bypassing region limitations on those discs. So, is it legal? No. Is it morally correct? No. Is it okay? Yes, in my book, because the value I place on the original, unmodified, timely content outweighs the legal and moral argument against pirating it.
- driverdan 15y ago
  Hear hear! I'm a huge fan of Top Gear. I even had a subscription to the magazine (shipped from the UK) before it got ridiculously expensive. Downloading is the only way I can watch it. Years ago, before I got rid of cable, it wasn't on BBC America. Now that it's available, in a horrible edited form, I don't have cable. I've considered watching it on iPlayer via VPN but AFAIK the quality is much lower. Plus this would actually put the BBC in a worse position, having to pay for bandwidth I'm otherwise using from fellow enthusiast sharing the file. I would pay if there was a way to legally watch it online, preferably in HD and close to the original release date.
- ticks 15y ago
  On the point of music. I don't think they can do much about it. In the UK the BBC can basically use any music they want - even if the artist doesn't want it used - but as soon as it reaches DVD or is shipped abroad it becomes expensive and complicated. An example is the series Monkey Dust. It had an amazing soundtrack and was a cult hit (until the guy behind it died). The distributors for the UK DVD release had to pay bands to perform cover versions for a lot of the tracks because it was too difficult to get the rights. The alternative is to limit their choice and pick the music with the aim to sell it. I am not a fan of this. It's like when you see a BBC show that's been made for advert breaks, so every 15 mins we (people in the UK) get a recap and some padding that they obviously plan to cut later. Or the show is only 40 mins, instead of 60.
ramblerman 15y ago
Now you know you see a franction of the problem most Europeans face. All our american (TV) content comes in 3-6 month delays. The fact HBO has decided to scrap their online distribution is just beyond me.

59 points by apress 15y ago

The same problem of course exists for all us non Americans. Most American TV series air months or years later, if they air at all. I would love to be able to watch the latest and greatest in entertainment within a day of it airing but that is not possible to do with legal means so 'everyone' turns to piracy.

JonnieCache 15y ago
Indeed. Americans: welcome to our world. The world, in fact.
- ghc 15y ago
  This isn't new to America. Anyone who's a fan of Japanese or Korean TV has exactly the same problems Europeans experience with American TV.
cf0ed2aa-bdf5 15y ago
Exactly my thoughts. I'm German so even if my favorite shows finally made it to Germany after years they are usually butchered by a sloppy at best dubbing. If I insisted on English audio I'd have to wait another year to buy the DVDs. I would love to watch my favorite show with ads or even pay for some of them to be able to support them but unfortunately that's just not possible as of now.
- kxs 15y ago
  Same here, I don't watch dubbed television shows/movies. The only alternatives are TNT and FOX atm, at least with sky you have dual audio.
  - Vivtek 15y ago
    Oh, God, the German dubs for Star Trek: The Next Generation were horrible - they sounded like the same guy did everybody's voices (OK, except for Troi, fortunately). And I'll never forget the debut of the Cosby Show in Germany and wanting to show my college friends this show I really liked - and realizing that without Bill Cosby's voice, it was utterly, hopelessly worthless. Not the first time Germans looked at me like I was crazy, but it was a formative experience.
kxs 15y ago
Let's hope tv series like "Touch" have success with their approach, Kiefer Sutherland said they are aiming for a 3 three day window (global broadcast).
- rickmb 15y ago
  That's not really new, here in the Netherlands the gap between US and local broadcasts has now often been reduced to less than a week for certain series. A 3 day window however is still too long for shows with real fans that want to participate in the global conversation. It may work for procedurals and sitcoms, but not for shows with big stories and cliffhangers like Lost, 24 and such. Never mind the fact that you still get all the disadvantages of a commercial broadcast: fixed time, annoying station logo's, subtitles (or dubbing depending on the country) and most of all: incessant commercial breaks. No thanks.
  - kxs 15y ago
    Well, in Germany it usually takes at least 3 to 6 months and those are mainstream series like Desperate Housewives or Grey's Anatomy.
coob 15y ago
With the later seasons of Lost, Sky One (UK) aired the newest episodes the night after their US premiere, supposedly to cut down on Sky losing viewers to pirating. Anecdotally, it worked.
- Kudos 15y ago
  They aired Battlestar Galactica a few hours ahead of the US. I'd imagine the narrower gap put an even deeper impact into piracy.
  - rmc 15y ago
    Actually BSG was aired in the UK a few months before the USA. Season 1 started in October 2004 in UK and January 2005 in USA. People in the USA must have pirated it loads before it was shown on TV. And yet the TV numbers were still very impressive. This is evidence that piracy doesn't affect sales/viewing figures.
    - rickmb 15y ago
      Dutch TV aired BSG months later. Result: everybody that wanted to see the show had already pirated it, and the viewing figures were miserable. This has happened with several popular shows.
      - rmc 15y ago
        Wonder what makes it different? The USA AFAIK had good viewership figures.
        justincormack 15y ago
        No one in the US would expect tohave to pirate a US program from abroad before first run. In the rest of the world it is just routine.
rythie 15y ago
What is particularly annoying, if you like the Facebook account and they tell you about the upcoming episode, for example Big Bang Theory which won't be on for a couple of months.
- cf0ed2aa-bdf5 15y ago
  What's really annoying to me is that they post previews for the upcoming episodes of for example The Big Bang Theory, make you watch the ads and then tell you that the video is not available in your region.
Vivtek 15y ago
What always ticked me off was the same "non-American" rule applied while we were living in Puerto Rico - which is part of the United States. My kids were watching American cable and weren't able to access the online episodes because we weren't on the continent.

dnlhoust 15y ago

It's interesting that this topic is something article worthy to the US; I'm not taking a swing at the US or salon.com. But as someone from the UK, this is the norm for a good majority of TV shows. I'd even make the assumption that if someone told me they can't wait for the next episode of a TV show; that they're waiting for it to become available online for download

civild 15y ago
This, exactly. Most of the TV shows I do watch are American and are shown on TV the next day at best, and never at worst. I don't feel bad downloading and viewing something that I'm already paying for to get it in advance, and I'm certain millions of others on both sides of the pond feel the same.
rmc 15y ago
Yep, USA welcome to what Hollywood does to the rest of us.
alan_cx 15y ago
Im in the UK. I regularly download US TV shows at US pace. Take a show like Lost, I wanted to be in the online discussions. Unless you are at US pace, you are basically screwed. I pay for all the channels that shows like Lost will eventually appear on. So, as far as I am concerned, my habit is perfectly legit. Lost specifically got to the point where it was aired with in 24 hrs of the US broadcast, and that was fine. In practice I would see the download with in that time span anyway. This is the way to go to stop people downloading. Problem is, downloading turns out to be easier and more convenient that actually being told when to sit and watch, and how. Its easier than using the broadcasters on line offerings. So, I still download. Give me a "legit" way that is a quick, easy and free as torrents, etc, I'll use it like a shot. As for people in the US downloading Downtown, well fair enough. Its should be as available to them as I want it to be here.

jeffool 15y ago

The topic reminds me of a presentation by Mark Pesce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxCoCTc3T5Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxCoCTc3T5Q In it he talks about how piracy has helped some shows, and alternate forms of publishing (physical media, online). Keep in mind that he's speaking from an Australian viewpoint and the economics are slightly different in this case mostly discussing content produced for another market... But it could be good stuff for you Kill Hollywood thinkers.

mgkimsal 15y ago

“If they aired a day later,” she says, “illegal pirating would be going on.” Probably, for different reasons, but likely not anywhere as near as it is today. If you knew stuff would be on in the UK on Th night, and you could see it uncut and unreformatted 26 hours later, you'd be far less likely to have initially bothered to go search it out. I submit that the awareness and convenience of online 'piracy' of TV shows has been driven, in large part, by the frustration people felt by knowing they'd have to wait months in the first place. Now that there's a whole generation of people who already know how to 'pirate', they're not going to turn back (certainly not without a fight - SOPA, etc) but the content industry has themselves to blame for this again. We gave up on BBC America back around 2004/2005 because they insisted on showing repeats instead of decent shows, and not explaining themselves. There was one week where they showed a combined 96 hours of "ground force", "changing rooms" and one other insipid home reality show. 96 hours of repeats of just 3 shows. Meanwhile EastEnders was scaled back and they showed less of that, and kept falling further behind. Eventually, after about a year or so of EastEnders in 2004, in to 2005, they started showing repeats of EastEnders from 2004 in place of the then-current episodes. It was as if they thought people wouldn't notice (or care) about getting repeats of a year-old ongoing soap episode. We quit even trying to support BBC America at that point, and turned to full scale torrents of any UK shows we wanted. In the absence of being able to simply pay a UK TV license fee directly to the appropriate office, we'll just pirate. I realize that $300 still wouldn't cover all the potential ads and such ITV gets, but it'd be a strong start. Make the BBC channels, ITV, and a couple other UK channels available as a UK package on DirecTV or Dish, charge $49/month, and I'd happily pay, assuming they were uncut feeds.

e40 15y ago
Agreed. As it is, DirecTV wants me to pay $85/mo for essentially 4-5 channels. I don't want: * those other 996 channels * your DVR to keep adding back stations once I remove them from the hunt list * your crappy DVR software--TiVo was fine and you replaced it with shit What I want is a way to pay a reasonable price for the few shows I watch. I can't do that. So, what I do instead is torrent the few shows I watch. People will pirate until the experience you give them as paying customers is equal to or better than their pirating experience.

pistoriusp 15y ago

Is it illegal to purchase a VPN account in the states and pay for a Netflix subscription?

shinratdr 15y ago
If it's convenient or solves your problem, it's illegal. Just use that as a rule of thumb.
p0ppe 15y ago
You would probably need a credit card tied to a us-based address as well.
- Kudos 15y ago
  Nope.
officemonkey 15y ago
When I lived in Europe from 2006-2008, I was able to purchase and download episodes online from Apple iTunes with a U.S. Credit Card. I was unable to access Hulu or Netflix streaming when they debuted, which made me sad.
rmc 15y ago
It is probably not illegal to purchase a VPN connection. However check the Netflix terms of use. They may specify that you can only access it if you are located in the USA. If you are using a VPN you are accessing a computer system without authorisation, which is illegal in the USA (and most other countries). You are unlikely to be convicted of it (though it did sorta happen once in the USA).
AgentConundrum 15y ago
It's not illegal, but it is against Netflix's TOS: > You may not circumvent, remove, alter, deactivate, degrade or thwart any of the content protections in the Netflix service. Using a VPN to access content from another region would be considered circumventing content protections.

Hemospectrum 15y ago

In markets where even a delayed rebroadcast is vanishingly unlikely, online streaming is absolutely thriving. For example, a whole lot of anime hits Crunchyroll and Hulu before the fansub groups ever get a crack at it. These sites and a few others are also expanding into live action Japanese and Korean TV. However, I think this only works when there's very little competition (from broadcasters) for individual shows. The BBC is probably in the worst position possible for an attempt to move to this model due to interplay between company-wide policy and the negotiating power of its international counterparts. Previous agreements with cable companies can't help much either.

officemonkey 15y ago

A. Copyright infringement is not stealing. B. The internet thrives precisely because it is transnational. This allows for quality programming to span the world. C. There is an international market for current episodes of popular TV shows. There is such a large market that people are willing to commit copyright infringement. D. Just because your business model doesn't adapt to the market, does not automatically mean that your business model deserves protection in the market. E. Media content creators have long protected their international licensing agreements with anti-customer technology like DVD Regions. F. At the end of the day, the customer doesn't care. They will find a better product in the market. G. It's my experience that people who pirate out of this frustration, are happy to pay when it is available. The person who pirated the Christmas Special would have paid money to see it, it was just not available at any price.

hyperbovine 15y ago
The episodes are available for free on pbs.org. I personally would not pay for it. But then again I was happy to wait for it to show up stateside.
jgfoot 15y ago
OK, copyright infringement isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. And copyright infringement is illegal. I am sorry that some people are "frustrated" because they cannot see their favorite programs at the same time that people in other parts of the world can see them. But what a remarkably morally shaky ground upon which to break the law! My great-grandfather stole food once; his father died when he was eight, and his mother couldn't support the family. Today, people steal--sorry, copyright infringe--Downton Abbey because they can't wait to find out whether Lady Mary is going to marry Matthew.
- njs12345 15y ago
  Presumably, your great-grandfather also jaywalked at some point in his life. I think it's valid to argue that we have a moral obligation to obey the law, but I'm not convinced most people act as though we do if the crime may be victimless and there's a small chance of getting caught..

stevoski 15y ago

A friend of mine works in BBC sales. He tells me that selling rights for their TV shows to channels in various countries is highly lucrative for the BBC. He also tells me that he understands this model won't last much longer. But until then, for economic reasons, the BBC doesn't want to make it too easy for you to watch their content directly in your non-UK country without going through a local channel.

jonnathanson 15y ago
International sales, distribution, and licensing has been a major cash cow of the TV industry for decades. It works in the other direction, as well, i.e., from the USA to the UK (and to other countries). Your friend is correct in that the appeal of this cash cow is why the industry will fight tooth and nail before they have to put her out to pasture. The model is going to become irrelevant sooner or later, but for the time being, it's still paying off handsomely. It will go, but it won't go quietly.
- digikata 15y ago
  The crazy part is that they could replace it with a new cash cow by simply charging for convenient access. Not only that, but you could deal with fewer middlemen, get more control over your own product distribution.
officemonkey 15y ago
How lucrative? As lucrative as a £1 rental of each episode of Downton Abbey or Dr. Who available the day after it is broadcast? Because that's the price point I would pay to watch a current episode.
justincormack 15y ago
They keep talking about releasing iplayer as a global subscription service. It will clearly happen sometime soon.

tristan_louis 15y ago

Is it OK to steal content from Hacker News? Is it OK to republish someone's blog post under your own name? Is it OK to steal free coupons from your neighbors' mailbox? Is it OK to steal free phones provided by phone companies (mostly feature phones) ? If your answer to any of the above is Yes, you probably will think that stealing "Downtown Abbey" is OK. Otherwise, think really hard and try to explain the difference.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
What does "steal from HN" even mean? The blog example isn't valid: nobody is taking shows and putting their names in the credits (at least, pertaining to this conversation). Coupons and phones are physical items that have very different rules and mores associated with them.

tptacek 15y ago

I pirated Downton. I pay for BBCA; moreover, when stuff is available on iTMS I buy, even when I buy the premium cable channel it runs on, even when it's available on VOD, even (for instance, with The Sopranos) when I own much of the physical DVD media for it! I've spent many many hundreds of dollars on iTMS for content that I already had legitimate paid-for access to. This is of course rationalization; the BBC is entitled to monetize their content however they see fit. That's capitalism. I rely on congruent norms, contracts, &c to make my living, and so do you --- even if you don't sell your own software directly, your wages are effectively subsidized by the defensibility of IP; we are all of us in the business of selling content for (on the face of it) unjustifiable premiums. But whatever, I'm human. This is perhaps a good reason for media companies to stop doing region encoding and staggered releases and such; it socializes people to piracy. If you've even got me torrenting stuff, you're probably doing something very wrong.

dminor 15y ago
> If you've even got me torrenting stuff, you're probably doing something very wrong. I never pirate and even I was sorely tempted. They've managed to produce a hit show that people are excited about, but then expect people to ignore that excitement and delay gratification for months. I feel like I'm one of those kids in the marshmallow experiment.
soneil 15y ago
I'm in pretty much the same position. I pay for cable, and extra for their DVR. I pay for netflix. I pay for the BBC's international variant of iplayer, even if it is device-specific. Every chance they've given me, I've paid. And I still end up 'stealing' content because geolocked business models don't work anymore. If they can't adapt to us, we'll have to adapt to them.
girlvinyl 15y ago
Sorry to be terribly pedantic, but the BBC does not run or produce Downton Abbey. Downton Abbey airs on iTV in the UK.
- tptacek 15y ago

c1sc0 15y ago

The irony is that if ACTA passes we'll probably have to VPN INTO China to freely watch delicious delicious western TV shows on PPStream and the likes.

georgieporgie 15y ago

I pirate Top Gear. BBC America butchers the hell out of the program. For starters, because they can't be bothered to secure music rights worldwide, they replace all the well-chosen, synchronized music with awful public domain stuff. Assuming we're all uninterested and intolerant, they often cut out the guest interviews, despite the usually witty banter being enjoyable on its own. Finally, in the ultimate insult, before every ad break they actually show you the punchline to the next segment! They literally ruin each and every show, segment by segment! If I'm watching BBC America, it's because I want to watch the BBC. I don't want to watch some watered down, Americanized version. I truly don't whether they hired dumb Americans, or they're just snobby Brits who think Americans are too dumb for their shows. Either way, it's insulting and not very entertaining. So, I can't speak for Downtown Abbey, but if it's treated anything like Top Gear, I can't imagine why they would think we'd want to watch their delayed, edited, watered down slop. Incidentally, I have looked into legal channels for purchasing Top Gear and they're all edited. The only one that, I think, is legitimately original is the British-release of the DVD, but I'm pretty sure that I would be technically committing a crime by bypassing region limitations on those discs. So, is it legal? No. Is it morally correct? No. Is it okay? Yes, in my book, because the value I place on the original, unmodified, timely content outweighs the legal and moral argument against pirating it.

driverdan 15y ago
Hear hear! I'm a huge fan of Top Gear. I even had a subscription to the magazine (shipped from the UK) before it got ridiculously expensive. Downloading is the only way I can watch it. Years ago, before I got rid of cable, it wasn't on BBC America. Now that it's available, in a horrible edited form, I don't have cable. I've considered watching it on iPlayer via VPN but AFAIK the quality is much lower. Plus this would actually put the BBC in a worse position, having to pay for bandwidth I'm otherwise using from fellow enthusiast sharing the file. I would pay if there was a way to legally watch it online, preferably in HD and close to the original release date.
ticks 15y ago
On the point of music. I don't think they can do much about it. In the UK the BBC can basically use any music they want - even if the artist doesn't want it used - but as soon as it reaches DVD or is shipped abroad it becomes expensive and complicated. An example is the series Monkey Dust. It had an amazing soundtrack and was a cult hit (until the guy behind it died). The distributors for the UK DVD release had to pay bands to perform cover versions for a lot of the tracks because it was too difficult to get the rights. The alternative is to limit their choice and pick the music with the aim to sell it. I am not a fan of this. It's like when you see a BBC show that's been made for advert breaks, so every 15 mins we (people in the UK) get a recap and some padding that they obviously plan to cut later. Or the show is only 40 mins, instead of 60.

ramblerman 15y ago

Now you know you see a franction of the problem most Europeans face. All our american (TV) content comes in 3-6 month delays. The fact HBO has decided to scrap their online distribution is just beyond me.