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This is the right time for tech workers to finally unionize. Too long have we believed tales of exceptionalism and of evil union overlords in the way of meritoc

This is the right time for tech workers to finally unionize. Too long have we believed tales of exceptionalism and of evil union overlords in the way of meritocracy. An injury to one is an injury to all.

scarface74 4y ago
Yeah the poor software developers at Meta making $300K+ should really ban together to have better working conditions.
- code_runner 4y ago
  I really think people don’t even know why unionizing was a thing back in the day. Dangerous conditions, back breaking labor, endless hours, checks don’t clear, wage collusion…
  - snozolli 4y ago
    I don't know where you've worked, but I've sustained several debilitating repetitive stress injuries as a result of long hours working in tech. I've had multiple higher-ups bitch that we're supposed to be working ten or twelve hour days, then want us to come in on Saturdays, too. Apple and Google colluded to suppress wages: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-google-settle-antitrust-lawsuit-hiring-collusion https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-goo... So, the industry seems to tick all of your boxes.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? I can’t imagine it being hard to change jobs as even journeyman “enterprise developer” (which I did for 25 years until 2020). I was able to find a job quickly in 2000 and 2008. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion. That was illegal with or without unions.
      - malermeister 4y ago
        The point isn't to change jobs to improve your own conditions selfishly. The point is to change the industry to better conditions for everyone.
        scarface74 4y ago
        The average tenure of software developers in the US is less than 3 years. We are all changing jobs to make things better.
      - snozolli 4y ago
        And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion I didn't say anything about unions, I merely addressed the implication by the parent comment that it isn't an issue in the tech industry. That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught.
        scarface74 4y ago
        > Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. You realize there are jobs outside of the “Bay Area” don’t you? Do you know how many job “opportunities” I’ve “noped” out of in my career just based on asking the right questions about the “culture”? > Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? I am very much arguing that - based on 25 years of experience and 8 jobs. I have not written a single line of code that I haven’t gotten paid for since graduating from college - in 1996. > Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies If that’s not your preferred environment then don’t work for BigTech, there are literally millions of jobs at banks, government, insurance companies and other corporate America jobs where people work 40 hours a week. > That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught. And it was…
- Chinjut 4y ago
  Why not? Have you seen how much Mark Zuckerberg makes?
- mlhpdx 4y ago
  Those Meta RSUs have done dwadle for total compensation in the past couple years. So the layoffs are piling stress in stress - much lower income and now job uncertainty. As others have noted, transferable skills due to Metas open source contributions are the bright spot.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So the median income in the US is $70K a year and yet most people aren’t homeless or hungry. Yes I work for BigTech now. I haven’t been “stressed” about losing my job after the first year when I started working - over 25 years ago. My first mission was to save aggressively.
- malermeister 4y ago
  Have you seen how much Meta made before Zuck drove it off a cliff? Just because you're well-compensated compared to others doesn't mean most of the value created by your labor isn't stolen by Capital.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    You realize that Zuck founded the company in the first place. You are free to create your own company just like he did.
    - malermeister 4y ago
      And the workers are the one that made the company work and earn any money in the first place. All the value Facebook ever made was made by its workers.
code_runner 4y ago
I’m not against unionizing necessarily, but these are layoffs. They happen, they suck. The benefits of working at these places are INSANE and unless you are working on content moderation the work isn’t physically taxing/destroying your body etc. All of these CEOs are nuts. They are all greedy. The capitalism-to-the-max model is less than great… but those of us in software are treated amazingly well. I agree these people should pay for their bad decisions but some of those decisions gave us equity grants, sky high salaries, and free meals. We can’t act like we haven’t benefited.
- revelio 4y ago
  Content moderation isn't physically taxing. Presumably you meant mentally taxing, even then it's debatable to what extent that is true.
loeg 4y ago
Note that this round of layoffs is concentrated in non-SWE roles.

scarface74 4y ago

Yeah the poor software developers at Meta making $300K+ should really ban together to have better working conditions.

code_runner 4y ago
I really think people don’t even know why unionizing was a thing back in the day. Dangerous conditions, back breaking labor, endless hours, checks don’t clear, wage collusion…
- snozolli 4y ago
  I don't know where you've worked, but I've sustained several debilitating repetitive stress injuries as a result of long hours working in tech. I've had multiple higher-ups bitch that we're supposed to be working ten or twelve hour days, then want us to come in on Saturdays, too. Apple and Google colluded to suppress wages: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-google-settle-antitrust-lawsuit-hiring-collusion https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-goo... So, the industry seems to tick all of your boxes.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? I can’t imagine it being hard to change jobs as even journeyman “enterprise developer” (which I did for 25 years until 2020). I was able to find a job quickly in 2000 and 2008. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion. That was illegal with or without unions.
    - malermeister 4y ago
      The point isn't to change jobs to improve your own conditions selfishly. The point is to change the industry to better conditions for everyone.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        The average tenure of software developers in the US is less than 3 years. We are all changing jobs to make things better.
    - snozolli 4y ago
      And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion I didn't say anything about unions, I merely addressed the implication by the parent comment that it isn't an issue in the tech industry. That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        > Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. You realize there are jobs outside of the “Bay Area” don’t you? Do you know how many job “opportunities” I’ve “noped” out of in my career just based on asking the right questions about the “culture”? > Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? I am very much arguing that - based on 25 years of experience and 8 jobs. I have not written a single line of code that I haven’t gotten paid for since graduating from college - in 1996. > Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies If that’s not your preferred environment then don’t work for BigTech, there are literally millions of jobs at banks, government, insurance companies and other corporate America jobs where people work 40 hours a week. > That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught. And it was…
Chinjut 4y ago
Why not? Have you seen how much Mark Zuckerberg makes?
mlhpdx 4y ago
Those Meta RSUs have done dwadle for total compensation in the past couple years. So the layoffs are piling stress in stress - much lower income and now job uncertainty. As others have noted, transferable skills due to Metas open source contributions are the bright spot.
- scarface74 4y ago
  So the median income in the US is $70K a year and yet most people aren’t homeless or hungry. Yes I work for BigTech now. I haven’t been “stressed” about losing my job after the first year when I started working - over 25 years ago. My first mission was to save aggressively.
malermeister 4y ago
Have you seen how much Meta made before Zuck drove it off a cliff? Just because you're well-compensated compared to others doesn't mean most of the value created by your labor isn't stolen by Capital.
- scarface74 4y ago
  You realize that Zuck founded the company in the first place. You are free to create your own company just like he did.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    And the workers are the one that made the company work and earn any money in the first place. All the value Facebook ever made was made by its workers.

code_runner 4y ago

I’m not against unionizing necessarily, but these are layoffs. They happen, they suck. The benefits of working at these places are INSANE and unless you are working on content moderation the work isn’t physically taxing/destroying your body etc. All of these CEOs are nuts. They are all greedy. The capitalism-to-the-max model is less than great… but those of us in software are treated amazingly well. I agree these people should pay for their bad decisions but some of those decisions gave us equity grants, sky high salaries, and free meals. We can’t act like we haven’t benefited.

revelio 4y ago
Content moderation isn't physically taxing. Presumably you meant mentally taxing, even then it's debatable to what extent that is true.

loeg 4y ago

Note that this round of layoffs is concentrated in non-SWE roles.