9 ms·

And the way to get back at PHB is to form a tech lead software company and hire 0 people with MBAs.

_a_a_a_ 4y ago
Is that truly fair though. I have no exposure to MBAs and it may be all the negative talk about them is based on the conspicuously bad ones. I'm speaking as an IT person with very little experience of running a business, and it may be that a good MBA could be a great asset. I genuinely don't know. I'm reminded of reading about a Lisp machine company that ran into the ground because it was managed by techies. Their tech may have been great but their marketing and business skills were very arguably what killed the company.
- _glass 4y ago
  I don't have an MBA, but I studied intercultural management as my Masters, and I am writing my PhD right now in management. To be honest it is quite zen like, with the degree you can understand how you can manage engineers by not trying to manage them. Other type of people mostly need closer alignment. I know a lot of stuff of how to make a company more profitable, and generally a nicer place to work. Management is actually quite like engineering, more of a craft than an exact science. The science helps you to have names for things, and a lot of times I really know how to fix people stuff.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  MBAs are HN’s favorite punching bags. They are the only stereotype that it’s still ok to blanket-generalize about and dunk on here. Some MBAs are dumbasses. Some are brilliant business people. Some of them actually have tech skills and have been writing software longer than you’ve been alive. This is true for many degrees. I don’t know how some of the anti-MBA commenters think it works: A smart software engineer goes off to business school, gets an MBA in addition to his undergrad technical degree/experience, and now… what? He’s somehow dumber? How does that work? Only on HN.
  - DanHulton 4y ago
    Because the promise of the MBA program was that you could be air-dropped into an industry that you had zero experience in, and your MBA education would automatically make you the smartest in the room. You (supposedly) didn't need that industry experience, applying MBA principles would be enough. And it destroyed enough companies that they developed a not-undeserved reputation. Now, if you already had relevant experience, then went and took the MBA course, and were able to identify when to lean on which, great! But, of course, part of that education is telling you that you don't NEED that experience in the first place, and if it and MBA principles disagreed, you should rely on the MBA principles. So, if you took the course truly to heart, then, well, yes, you would be somewhat "dumber", so long as you define that as "unable to make correct decisions."
    - donkers 4y ago
      Having been a software engineer and gone on to do a MBA, none of what was taught for the degree reflected the attitude that you're describing. At no time did anyone tell us to ignore our prior experience - rather we were told that that our prior experience plus a business education would be valuable to future employers (which it is). There was no expectation of being "air dropped" into an industry, and in fact, industry recruiters looked for candidates who already had prior experience when picking students for interviews and hiring. The students who had no relevant experience for the industry they were recruiting for (e.g. ex-Peace Corps or mgmt consultant looking to transition to tech or industry in general) were the ones who struggled to find roles. Your assumptions about what an MBA education entails are incredibly far off the mark.
    - sys_64738 4y ago
      I have an MBA and a CS degree so responses like this make me chuckle. I generally don't bother to engage with those with an MBA-phobia who haven't done it themselves.

Is that truly fair though. I have no exposure to MBAs and it may be all the negative talk about them is based on the conspicuously bad ones. I'm speaking as an IT person with very little experience of running a business, and it may be that a good MBA could be a great asset. I genuinely don't know. I'm reminded of reading about a Lisp machine company that ran into the ground because it was managed by techies. Their tech may have been great but their marketing and business skills were very arguably what killed the company.

_glass 4y ago
I don't have an MBA, but I studied intercultural management as my Masters, and I am writing my PhD right now in management. To be honest it is quite zen like, with the degree you can understand how you can manage engineers by not trying to manage them. Other type of people mostly need closer alignment. I know a lot of stuff of how to make a company more profitable, and generally a nicer place to work. Management is actually quite like engineering, more of a craft than an exact science. The science helps you to have names for things, and a lot of times I really know how to fix people stuff.
ryandrake 4y ago
MBAs are HN’s favorite punching bags. They are the only stereotype that it’s still ok to blanket-generalize about and dunk on here. Some MBAs are dumbasses. Some are brilliant business people. Some of them actually have tech skills and have been writing software longer than you’ve been alive. This is true for many degrees. I don’t know how some of the anti-MBA commenters think it works: A smart software engineer goes off to business school, gets an MBA in addition to his undergrad technical degree/experience, and now… what? He’s somehow dumber? How does that work? Only on HN.
- DanHulton 4y ago
  Because the promise of the MBA program was that you could be air-dropped into an industry that you had zero experience in, and your MBA education would automatically make you the smartest in the room. You (supposedly) didn't need that industry experience, applying MBA principles would be enough. And it destroyed enough companies that they developed a not-undeserved reputation. Now, if you already had relevant experience, then went and took the MBA course, and were able to identify when to lean on which, great! But, of course, part of that education is telling you that you don't NEED that experience in the first place, and if it and MBA principles disagreed, you should rely on the MBA principles. So, if you took the course truly to heart, then, well, yes, you would be somewhat "dumber", so long as you define that as "unable to make correct decisions."
  - donkers 4y ago
    Having been a software engineer and gone on to do a MBA, none of what was taught for the degree reflected the attitude that you're describing. At no time did anyone tell us to ignore our prior experience - rather we were told that that our prior experience plus a business education would be valuable to future employers (which it is). There was no expectation of being "air dropped" into an industry, and in fact, industry recruiters looked for candidates who already had prior experience when picking students for interviews and hiring. The students who had no relevant experience for the industry they were recruiting for (e.g. ex-Peace Corps or mgmt consultant looking to transition to tech or industry in general) were the ones who struggled to find roles. Your assumptions about what an MBA education entails are incredibly far off the mark.
  - sys_64738 4y ago
    I have an MBA and a CS degree so responses like this make me chuckle. I generally don't bother to engage with those with an MBA-phobia who haven't done it themselves.