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To be fair: Many companies do not respect that. I've also seen European based companies doing the same thing many times. It's also a little frustrating (for sm

To be fair: Many companies do not respect that. I've also seen European based companies doing the same thing many times. It's also a little frustrating (for small companies) if you sell across the whole EU single market (and also beyond like e.g. UK and many other countries) and have a very dynamic price frontend depending on user's country detection. Btw. does anybody know if I can sell with fixed pricing for whole EU and cut my profit dynamically depending on user's country VAT rate? E.g. I charge 10 EUR for everyone in EU but I deduct 19% VAT in the backend for Germany, 21% for Spain etc. and basically make a little more profit with a German customer ?

BrentOzar 4y ago
> can sell with fixed pricing for whole EU and cut my profit dynamically depending on user's country VAT Technically, yes - some selling platforms like Teachable give you that option. You (they) still have to break out the correct VAT on the inside and receipt to the customer, but this approach just lets you delay calculating VAT until after they've put in their country during the checkout process, while still keeping the same apparent price to the end user.
- therealmarv 4y ago
  Sweet, thanks for the answer. Yes I know the right VAT has to be detected/chosen/calculated at the very end with right receipt but at least the more static frontend and more fixed charging does not violate EU laws.
LightBug1 4y ago
"To be fair: I'll break a law I don't respect". Got it.
- therealmarv 4y ago
  Never said that. Everyone should respect and follow it (and it seems it's not enforced across many international companies). But this law is not without its practical problems for selling digital services B2C on the Internet across EU. The article leaves the impression as if only Twitter doing it which is clearly not the case here.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> I've also seen European based companies doing the same thing many times. I have this from B2B companies that do not expect to deal with consumers, as businesses do not normally pay VAT
- zeckalpha 4y ago
  If the businesses are in a consumer's supply chain, wouldn't VAT apply?
  - RedShift1 4y ago
    Businesses that do both b2b and b2c will either have a toggle to show prices with or without VAT, show both, or only show price with VAT.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      A separation in the registration/login flow is pretty common - you only see the prices without vat if you’re a registered business customer, often they require either a VAT-ID or other proof you’re a business customer.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Businesses reclaim any VAT they pay. You file a monthly/ Quarterly/Yearly report to the taxman either to Pay VAT you collectes or to rexlaim VAT you paid Only the end consumer pays VAT.
    - zeckalpha 4y ago
      That sounds like Sales tax rather than VAT.
wdb 4y ago
Doesn't it depend whether the company is targeting a customer or a business entity? For the latter it is fine.
eterm 4y ago
Price discrimination is illegal in the EU: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri... You have to have a single price for goods across the EU, so you shouldn't have a "very dynamic price" depending on their country. Unfortunately this doesn't cover "licensing", at least not yet.
- therealmarv 4y ago
  I think you are missing an important detail here: "When you buy goods online in the EU, prices may vary from country to country or across different versions of the same website, for example due to differences in delivery costs. However, if you buy goods online WITHOUT cross-border delivery you should have access to the same prices and special offers as buyers living in that EU country" So when cross-border delivery is done (this is fulfilled by electronic submitting even) I can charge different prices for different countries. All people with IP from country X get the same price. Country Y can have a different price. Same price among all countries in Europe cannot be true... you even have different prices on Amazon stores in Europe like amazon.de amazon.fr amazon.it amazon.es on same goods from the very same warehouse etc. Other example Netflix or Youtube Premium subscriptions, they are also not the same price among whole EU (for example Denmark vs. Bulgaria)
- somenameforme 4y ago
  I am fairly certain that you're misreading that, though as with all regulations - having a legal team on standby is practically a requirement. It's talking about literal in-country discrimination. For example many touristy locations will have a price for locals and a price for non-locals at places like e.g. zoos. That would be illegal in the EU. By contrast it explicitly states that: "When you buy goods online in the EU, prices may vary [their emphasis, not mine] from country to country or across different versions of the same website, for example due to differences in delivery costs." A nice rule of thumb for translating legalese is to translate "may" to "will" (except when it would benefit you), and to strip off examples. So for instance: "We may share your data, for instance with trusted partners or in response to legal obligations." translates to "We will share your data with whoever we want." And here too you can translate it to simply, "Prices will vary from country to country."
themitigating 4y ago
Whataboutism

BrentOzar 4y ago

> can sell with fixed pricing for whole EU and cut my profit dynamically depending on user's country VAT Technically, yes - some selling platforms like Teachable give you that option. You (they) still have to break out the correct VAT on the inside and receipt to the customer, but this approach just lets you delay calculating VAT until after they've put in their country during the checkout process, while still keeping the same apparent price to the end user.

therealmarv 4y ago
Sweet, thanks for the answer. Yes I know the right VAT has to be detected/chosen/calculated at the very end with right receipt but at least the more static frontend and more fixed charging does not violate EU laws.

LightBug1 4y ago

"To be fair: I'll break a law I don't respect". Got it.

therealmarv 4y ago
Never said that. Everyone should respect and follow it (and it seems it's not enforced across many international companies). But this law is not without its practical problems for selling digital services B2C on the Internet across EU. The article leaves the impression as if only Twitter doing it which is clearly not the case here.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> I've also seen European based companies doing the same thing many times. I have this from B2B companies that do not expect to deal with consumers, as businesses do not normally pay VAT

zeckalpha 4y ago
If the businesses are in a consumer's supply chain, wouldn't VAT apply?
- RedShift1 4y ago
  Businesses that do both b2b and b2c will either have a toggle to show prices with or without VAT, show both, or only show price with VAT.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    A separation in the registration/login flow is pretty common - you only see the prices without vat if you’re a registered business customer, often they require either a VAT-ID or other proof you’re a business customer.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Businesses reclaim any VAT they pay. You file a monthly/ Quarterly/Yearly report to the taxman either to Pay VAT you collectes or to rexlaim VAT you paid Only the end consumer pays VAT.
  - zeckalpha 4y ago
    That sounds like Sales tax rather than VAT.

wdb 4y ago

Doesn't it depend whether the company is targeting a customer or a business entity? For the latter it is fine.

eterm 4y ago

Price discrimination is illegal in the EU: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri... You have to have a single price for goods across the EU, so you shouldn't have a "very dynamic price" depending on their country. Unfortunately this doesn't cover "licensing", at least not yet.

therealmarv 4y ago
I think you are missing an important detail here: "When you buy goods online in the EU, prices may vary from country to country or across different versions of the same website, for example due to differences in delivery costs. However, if you buy goods online WITHOUT cross-border delivery you should have access to the same prices and special offers as buyers living in that EU country" So when cross-border delivery is done (this is fulfilled by electronic submitting even) I can charge different prices for different countries. All people with IP from country X get the same price. Country Y can have a different price. Same price among all countries in Europe cannot be true... you even have different prices on Amazon stores in Europe like amazon.de amazon.fr amazon.it amazon.es on same goods from the very same warehouse etc. Other example Netflix or Youtube Premium subscriptions, they are also not the same price among whole EU (for example Denmark vs. Bulgaria)
somenameforme 4y ago
I am fairly certain that you're misreading that, though as with all regulations - having a legal team on standby is practically a requirement. It's talking about literal in-country discrimination. For example many touristy locations will have a price for locals and a price for non-locals at places like e.g. zoos. That would be illegal in the EU. By contrast it explicitly states that: "When you buy goods online in the EU, prices may vary [their emphasis, not mine] from country to country or across different versions of the same website, for example due to differences in delivery costs." A nice rule of thumb for translating legalese is to translate "may" to "will" (except when it would benefit you), and to strip off examples. So for instance: "We may share your data, for instance with trusted partners or in response to legal obligations." translates to "We will share your data with whoever we want." And here too you can translate it to simply, "Prices will vary from country to country."

themitigating 4y ago

Whataboutism