6 ms·

Maybe they should also exercise, eat healthy, not be obese, avoid stress... All of that may boost vaccine effect! That does not apply to women, because they are

Maybe they should also exercise, eat healthy, not be obese, avoid stress... All of that may boost vaccine effect! That does not apply to women, because they are gorgeous, and we should not tell them what to do. What a garbage!

Brigand 4y ago
It’s the data that shows the situation for women is less clear. This is good advice: when getting vaccinated make sure to get a good night sleep. Why the outrage?
- t344344 4y ago
  Did you read the paragraph about women? It says there was too much noise in data, they could not measure positive effect of sleep! What conclusions medical professional would derive from that? Secondly I really do not like the overall tone of the article.
  - moreresearchplz 4y ago
    > What conclusions medical professional would derive from that? More research. Which is exactly what they plead for in their paper.
  - is_true 4y ago
    That's how science works. They tried to reduce uncertainty, they couldn't, now they have to try something else.
  - AlecSchueler 4y ago
    This is a constant problem in studying the effects of medicine. For years we've simply ignored women's bodies (default man) in many studies but we're increasingly seeing reasons why that's not such a good idea. Really recommend the book Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez to anyone interested in this and the problems that stem from it for women.
astrange 4y ago
It's certainly believable their immune systems don't work exactly the same way. Men usually feel sicker when they get ill as well IIRC.
andy_ppp 4y ago
My guess is that this study is a load of nonsense, they are probably just picking up a signal for how generally healthy a population is rather than any real difference in vaccination efficacy. We know healthy people fight the virus better, how do you effectively remove that from the fighting the virus better by vaccination? Having slept well sounds like something people who would fight COVID better anyway would do. Does anyone have a link to the paper so I can see if they try to factor for these?
- JusticeJuice 4y ago
  https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)00156-2 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)... AFAIK, it's established that white blood cells are mainly produced when sleeping. So seems reasonable that lower white blood cell count makes vaccines less effective - in the same way vaccination for people with weaker immune systems are less effective.
- t344344 4y ago
  I assume it is this one. Will not post direct link. A meta-analysis of the associations between insufficient sleep duration and antibody response to vaccination K. Spiegel, A. Rey, A. Cheylus, K. Ayling, C. Benedict, T. Lange, A. Prather, Daniel J. Taylor, M. Irwin, E. van Cauter less Published 1 March 2023 Medicine, Biology, Psychology Current Biology
jgerrish 4y ago
Hackernews provides a cool space on the Internet at this brief moment in time. It's wonderful randomly seeing passionate voices that are experts in their field speak up in comments. Your input is appreciated, but I hope this space doesn't help breed hatred. It's tough in today's world resisting the urge to take down others when we're suffering. But we all lose when we alienate those others who can bring intellectual sparks of joy into this world. Every voice matters, however brief it is.
- favaq 4y ago
  His message, at least the way I read it, is a message of love for men. It's sad that you have seen hatred in it. Perhaps you should reflect.
JusticeJuice 4y ago
> That does not apply to women, because they are gorgeous, and we should not tell them what to do. I am baffled how you took that away from the article. Did we read the same thing? This is what they had to say about the results for women. > As for why the results in women were not significant, Dr Spiegel and her colleagues theorise that sleep affects female response to vaccines too but that hormone interference, driven by varying stages of the menstrual cycle, contraception and hormone-replacement therapies, is probably altering immune response in profound and unknown ways that throw off the results. It is a subject area that urgently needs more attention, argue the researchers. ???
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  Wait, hormone replacement therapies in women? I don’t understand this one. If we are referring to transgender women, I think they’re like less than 1% of the population or something so it doesn’t make sense to rule out all women for an outlier. If we are referring to menopausal women, I don’t believe hormone replacement for menopause is very popular (I heard it causes health problems??). Also don’t men also get hormone replacement, ie they use steroids to get buff but also increasingly the concern of being low-testosterone has caused an increase of men supplementing testosterone especially when older?
  - aww_dang 4y ago
    Perhaps it was a reference to birth control.
    - azalemeth 4y ago
      The menopause or perimenopausal period, more like.
    - AlecSchueler 4y ago
      Sometimes it's frightening to see what a male centric community HN is but this is hilarious.
praxulus 4y ago
>Dr Spiegel says that encouraging patients to get plenty of sleep before and after a vaccination appointment is an ideal way for a medical system to maximise its vaccine stock and ensure that the benefits granted are as large as possible. They don't limit their recommendation to only men, all patients should be encouraged to get plenty of sleep. What on earth are you talking about?
sandworm101 4y ago
I was turned off before the part about women. Im too tired for more lectures about how im supposed to spend more time being less tired. Sunday morning. The boss needs something done by 0900 and then i have a conference call at 1000 ( a "coms check" ahead of the real call monday morning). So it's time to stop reading about sleep and do the thing that pays the bills.
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  What company in tech has mandatory Sunday work? Seems a little extreme. I'm guessing most companies don't have this so the best option is to work for one of them.
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    Military. We have an important teleconference monday morning with some new people using new systems (0500 local, noon in europe). That means we need to do a coms check today (sunday) if we want to have enough time to iron out any details. Sunday is also a better time for such things as the systems/rooms are not already booked for other things. So we can run late without having to bump other groups off of equipment/networks/rooms etc. But there are lots of civilian tech jobs that require work on the weekends too. Data centers do not shut down on weekends, nor do the millions of network connections that tie everything together.
Eumenes 4y ago
You can do all those things, and not get a vaccine, and be in good shape too!

Brigand 4y ago

It’s the data that shows the situation for women is less clear. This is good advice: when getting vaccinated make sure to get a good night sleep. Why the outrage?

t344344 4y ago
Did you read the paragraph about women? It says there was too much noise in data, they could not measure positive effect of sleep! What conclusions medical professional would derive from that? Secondly I really do not like the overall tone of the article.
- moreresearchplz 4y ago
  > What conclusions medical professional would derive from that? More research. Which is exactly what they plead for in their paper.
- is_true 4y ago
  That's how science works. They tried to reduce uncertainty, they couldn't, now they have to try something else.
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  This is a constant problem in studying the effects of medicine. For years we've simply ignored women's bodies (default man) in many studies but we're increasingly seeing reasons why that's not such a good idea. Really recommend the book Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez to anyone interested in this and the problems that stem from it for women.

astrange 4y ago

It's certainly believable their immune systems don't work exactly the same way. Men usually feel sicker when they get ill as well IIRC.

andy_ppp 4y ago

My guess is that this study is a load of nonsense, they are probably just picking up a signal for how generally healthy a population is rather than any real difference in vaccination efficacy. We know healthy people fight the virus better, how do you effectively remove that from the fighting the virus better by vaccination? Having slept well sounds like something people who would fight COVID better anyway would do. Does anyone have a link to the paper so I can see if they try to factor for these?

JusticeJuice 4y ago
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)00156-2 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)... AFAIK, it's established that white blood cells are mainly produced when sleeping. So seems reasonable that lower white blood cell count makes vaccines less effective - in the same way vaccination for people with weaker immune systems are less effective.
t344344 4y ago
I assume it is this one. Will not post direct link. A meta-analysis of the associations between insufficient sleep duration and antibody response to vaccination K. Spiegel, A. Rey, A. Cheylus, K. Ayling, C. Benedict, T. Lange, A. Prather, Daniel J. Taylor, M. Irwin, E. van Cauter less Published 1 March 2023 Medicine, Biology, Psychology Current Biology

jgerrish 4y ago

Hackernews provides a cool space on the Internet at this brief moment in time. It's wonderful randomly seeing passionate voices that are experts in their field speak up in comments. Your input is appreciated, but I hope this space doesn't help breed hatred. It's tough in today's world resisting the urge to take down others when we're suffering. But we all lose when we alienate those others who can bring intellectual sparks of joy into this world. Every voice matters, however brief it is.

favaq 4y ago
His message, at least the way I read it, is a message of love for men. It's sad that you have seen hatred in it. Perhaps you should reflect.

JusticeJuice 4y ago

> That does not apply to women, because they are gorgeous, and we should not tell them what to do. I am baffled how you took that away from the article. Did we read the same thing? This is what they had to say about the results for women. > As for why the results in women were not significant, Dr Spiegel and her colleagues theorise that sleep affects female response to vaccines too but that hormone interference, driven by varying stages of the menstrual cycle, contraception and hormone-replacement therapies, is probably altering immune response in profound and unknown ways that throw off the results. It is a subject area that urgently needs more attention, argue the researchers. ???

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
Wait, hormone replacement therapies in women? I don’t understand this one. If we are referring to transgender women, I think they’re like less than 1% of the population or something so it doesn’t make sense to rule out all women for an outlier. If we are referring to menopausal women, I don’t believe hormone replacement for menopause is very popular (I heard it causes health problems??). Also don’t men also get hormone replacement, ie they use steroids to get buff but also increasingly the concern of being low-testosterone has caused an increase of men supplementing testosterone especially when older?
- aww_dang 4y ago
  Perhaps it was a reference to birth control.
  - azalemeth 4y ago
    The menopause or perimenopausal period, more like.
  - AlecSchueler 4y ago
    Sometimes it's frightening to see what a male centric community HN is but this is hilarious.

praxulus 4y ago

>Dr Spiegel says that encouraging patients to get plenty of sleep before and after a vaccination appointment is an ideal way for a medical system to maximise its vaccine stock and ensure that the benefits granted are as large as possible. They don't limit their recommendation to only men, all patients should be encouraged to get plenty of sleep. What on earth are you talking about?

sandworm101 4y ago

I was turned off before the part about women. Im too tired for more lectures about how im supposed to spend more time being less tired. Sunday morning. The boss needs something done by 0900 and then i have a conference call at 1000 ( a "coms check" ahead of the real call monday morning). So it's time to stop reading about sleep and do the thing that pays the bills.

cactusplant7374 4y ago
What company in tech has mandatory Sunday work? Seems a little extreme. I'm guessing most companies don't have this so the best option is to work for one of them.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  Military. We have an important teleconference monday morning with some new people using new systems (0500 local, noon in europe). That means we need to do a coms check today (sunday) if we want to have enough time to iron out any details. Sunday is also a better time for such things as the systems/rooms are not already booked for other things. So we can run late without having to bump other groups off of equipment/networks/rooms etc. But there are lots of civilian tech jobs that require work on the weekends too. Data centers do not shut down on weekends, nor do the millions of network connections that tie everything together.

Eumenes 4y ago

You can do all those things, and not get a vaccine, and be in good shape too!