6 ms·

Those people still need to eat and pay rent so maybe we should solve that before making who knows how many millions of people jobless.

austin-cheney 4y ago
Then they can find employment in industries facing dire shortages like education and nursing. If the only goal is to put unqualified people into seats for a paycheck then it doesn’t matter what they do for income.
- Yoric 4y ago
  I agree with the general idea. However, retraining may become really hard. Especially if you're already, say, a 60 year old programmer (or business analyst, or executive assistant, etc.) who suddenly needs to become a (AI assisted) teacher or nurse.
  - 8organicbits 4y ago
    Wouldn't most of those people look towards early retirement? We've failed as a society if 60 year olds end their career in one of the highest paying professions and they cant cover rent and food.
    - pbalau 4y ago
      I don't think we failed as a society, i think those people failed.
    - Yoric 4y ago
      I know a few people who are a bit younger (maybe 55?) and who, after a career in high impact jobs, found themselves without any possible position. I know that they're not nearly ready to retire. I don't know about how much savings they have. In these cases, that's entirely independent from AI, but I suspect that AI will only make it harder. And yes, it feels to me like society is failing for many people who are approaching retirement age.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        What is the driver underlying “no possible position”? Are they no longer capable/qualified to do anything that’s still done in the economy? Or are they just unwilling to take a rank-and-file position?
        Yoric 4y ago
        Let's try and come up with a few examples. I know two people who are former C-rank executives, both of them with strong ethical backbones. They have both led very high-profile projects (most people on HN know some of these projects). At this stage of their career, you could even say that ethics are not just part of their beliefs but also their personal brand. They have both been on the market for a few years by now. 1. Nobody will hire them as rank-and-file. It just doesn't make sense. 2. At least one of them has received offers to be the ethical maskerade for a company that actually violently goes against their ethics. They said "no". Last time I heard from them, they were both retraining in very different domains... with limited career success.
- nor-and-or-not 4y ago
  Wow, so everyone is qualified as teacher or nurse? It seems to me that you have no respect and knowledge of those jobs and the people doing them.
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    Well, apparently everyone can lEaRn tO CoDe too, how is that any different?
dijit 4y ago
Useless jobs shouldn't exist, people should be able to live without wasting resources and their life in doing false work.
- bloqs 4y ago
  The pemise that they are being paid to do the job (and there isnt one of them) implies that its not false work.
  - dijit 4y ago
    Sure, so we should have avoided inventing alarm clocks because that was a persons job before? Telegraphers? Lamplighters?
- ulfw 4y ago
  How old are you? This is a very idealistic point of view. I might call it a "I watch a lot of Star Trek" utopian kind of view. Vast majority of people in the real world do a "useless job". What do you think they should be doing and how do they get those alternative opportunities to feed themselves and their families?
  - dijit 4y ago
    33. Not to be glib, but I think you're too locked into an ideology. Idealistically we shouldn't be working in jobs that do not add value to society, that could well include my job. You work 8 hours to live 4. You work 5 days to enjoy 2. You work 8 hrs to eat lunch in 30 mins. You work all year to take a week or two holiday. You work all your life to retire in old age. You might claim that people need to work to live, but honestly, if you're not adding value to society then expending resources and wasting your life is.. just wasteful? It's not just stupid it's literally harmful. We're not post-scarcity, and I'm certainly not saying that there's no value in people's jobs -- I'm not even saying where to draw the line, but I think there is a line to be drawn. Driving a 4x4 to work as a greeter in a large shopping mall is just a confoundingly stupid notion and saying that a person should not be able to live without doing something as stupid as that is... well, quite divorced from the reality of the universe outside. Not to say that there isn't a sociological requirement for people to feel useful, but that feeling could easily be found in more humane sections of life like being a good parent or good neighbour.
ChatGTP 4y ago
https://openai.com/charter https://openai.com/charter I found this hard to read personally but have a look. Edit: I find it hard to read because I believe it’s imposing and it’s a hypocritical piece of corporate new age woke trash. The goal is to make a bunch of money, just be honest about it.

austin-cheney 4y ago

Then they can find employment in industries facing dire shortages like education and nursing. If the only goal is to put unqualified people into seats for a paycheck then it doesn’t matter what they do for income.

Yoric 4y ago
I agree with the general idea. However, retraining may become really hard. Especially if you're already, say, a 60 year old programmer (or business analyst, or executive assistant, etc.) who suddenly needs to become a (AI assisted) teacher or nurse.
- 8organicbits 4y ago
  Wouldn't most of those people look towards early retirement? We've failed as a society if 60 year olds end their career in one of the highest paying professions and they cant cover rent and food.
  - pbalau 4y ago
    I don't think we failed as a society, i think those people failed.
  - Yoric 4y ago
    I know a few people who are a bit younger (maybe 55?) and who, after a career in high impact jobs, found themselves without any possible position. I know that they're not nearly ready to retire. I don't know about how much savings they have. In these cases, that's entirely independent from AI, but I suspect that AI will only make it harder. And yes, it feels to me like society is failing for many people who are approaching retirement age.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      What is the driver underlying “no possible position”? Are they no longer capable/qualified to do anything that’s still done in the economy? Or are they just unwilling to take a rank-and-file position?
      - Yoric 4y ago
        Let's try and come up with a few examples. I know two people who are former C-rank executives, both of them with strong ethical backbones. They have both led very high-profile projects (most people on HN know some of these projects). At this stage of their career, you could even say that ethics are not just part of their beliefs but also their personal brand. They have both been on the market for a few years by now. 1. Nobody will hire them as rank-and-file. It just doesn't make sense. 2. At least one of them has received offers to be the ethical maskerade for a company that actually violently goes against their ethics. They said "no". Last time I heard from them, they were both retraining in very different domains... with limited career success.
nor-and-or-not 4y ago
Wow, so everyone is qualified as teacher or nurse? It seems to me that you have no respect and knowledge of those jobs and the people doing them.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  Well, apparently everyone can lEaRn tO CoDe too, how is that any different?

dijit 4y ago

Useless jobs shouldn't exist, people should be able to live without wasting resources and their life in doing false work.

bloqs 4y ago
The pemise that they are being paid to do the job (and there isnt one of them) implies that its not false work.
- dijit 4y ago
  Sure, so we should have avoided inventing alarm clocks because that was a persons job before? Telegraphers? Lamplighters?
ulfw 4y ago
How old are you? This is a very idealistic point of view. I might call it a "I watch a lot of Star Trek" utopian kind of view. Vast majority of people in the real world do a "useless job". What do you think they should be doing and how do they get those alternative opportunities to feed themselves and their families?
- dijit 4y ago
  33. Not to be glib, but I think you're too locked into an ideology. Idealistically we shouldn't be working in jobs that do not add value to society, that could well include my job. You work 8 hours to live 4. You work 5 days to enjoy 2. You work 8 hrs to eat lunch in 30 mins. You work all year to take a week or two holiday. You work all your life to retire in old age. You might claim that people need to work to live, but honestly, if you're not adding value to society then expending resources and wasting your life is.. just wasteful? It's not just stupid it's literally harmful. We're not post-scarcity, and I'm certainly not saying that there's no value in people's jobs -- I'm not even saying where to draw the line, but I think there is a line to be drawn. Driving a 4x4 to work as a greeter in a large shopping mall is just a confoundingly stupid notion and saying that a person should not be able to live without doing something as stupid as that is... well, quite divorced from the reality of the universe outside. Not to say that there isn't a sociological requirement for people to feel useful, but that feeling could easily be found in more humane sections of life like being a good parent or good neighbour.

ChatGTP 4y ago

https://openai.com/charter https://openai.com/charter I found this hard to read personally but have a look. Edit: I find it hard to read because I believe it’s imposing and it’s a hypocritical piece of corporate new age woke trash. The goal is to make a bunch of money, just be honest about it.