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I guess programming [1] isn’t worth learning, then? [1] https://norvig.com/21-days.html https://norvig.com/21-days.html

by djaouen 4y ago

adastra22 4y ago
“UI/UX”
- omnicognate 4y ago
  "Mastering" emacs (certainly any version of "mastering" it that takes a whole year) requires learning a programming language, elisp. This is because emacs isn't an editor. It's a language and environment for rapiy developing textual user interfaces (TUIs) and "customising" or "configuring" it is programming. To just learn to operate it as a text editor certainly doesn't take a year, but if that's the approach you're going to take I wouldn't recommend emacs. Use VS Code or a JetBrains IDE or whatever instead. The linked article isn't very good, BTW. If you're interested in actually mastering emacs, the book "Mastering Emacs" [1], whose author comments here regularly, is the place to start. [1] https://www.masteringemacs.org/ https://www.masteringemacs.org/
  - illiarian 4y ago
    > To just learn to operate it as a text editor certainly doesn't take a year, but if that's the approach you're going to take I wouldn't recommend emacs. Use VS Code or a JetBrains IDE or whatever instead The way this sentence is constructed, it makes VS Code and Jetbrains IDEs sound like just text editors :) In all seriousness though, for the vast majority of programmers Emacs (or vim for that matter) has no value compared to, say, Jetbrains IDEs. You need dozens of plugins and an unknown number lines of arcane configurations just to have a semblance of a small part of functionality that those IDEs have out of the box.
    - omnicognate 4y ago
      That certainly wasn't the intention of that sentence. Re "has no value" - wevs. It has massive value to me and to a community large enough to have continually supplied me with new and useful functionality and resources for 20 years, most of which have been spent using it alongside either Visual Studio (not "Code") or a JetBrains IDE (mostly Rider, some PyCharm). You use whatever tools you like and I'll decide what tools have value to me.
- bigpeopleareold 4y ago
  I think a programming language can be viewed as a UI and having a UX: - UI: It's a text based UI that is lazily evaluated (that is, there is always some compilation and/or execution to specifically run for the commands to execute. This UI would fit a certain model of computation, itself being a domain and use-case. - UX: The ergonomics of a programming language, like it's usefulness, accessibility of concepts, its surrounding toolchain, is part of the experience of using this interface to the computer. There is also talk even here on HN about PL features and their utility. That, to me, is a form of user experience. I say this because I think about a programming language's toolchain as the make-or-break aspect of its utility of a language. Can I interface with it well enough without anxiety or anger? :) But, these "lazily evaluated" tools I think form in an aggregate as a user interface to me.

I guess programming [1] isn’t worth learning, then? [1] https://norvig.com/21-days.html https://norvig.com/21-days.html

adastra22 4y ago

“UI/UX”

omnicognate 4y ago
"Mastering" emacs (certainly any version of "mastering" it that takes a whole year) requires learning a programming language, elisp. This is because emacs isn't an editor. It's a language and environment for rapiy developing textual user interfaces (TUIs) and "customising" or "configuring" it is programming. To just learn to operate it as a text editor certainly doesn't take a year, but if that's the approach you're going to take I wouldn't recommend emacs. Use VS Code or a JetBrains IDE or whatever instead. The linked article isn't very good, BTW. If you're interested in actually mastering emacs, the book "Mastering Emacs" [1], whose author comments here regularly, is the place to start. [1] https://www.masteringemacs.org/ https://www.masteringemacs.org/
- illiarian 4y ago
  > To just learn to operate it as a text editor certainly doesn't take a year, but if that's the approach you're going to take I wouldn't recommend emacs. Use VS Code or a JetBrains IDE or whatever instead The way this sentence is constructed, it makes VS Code and Jetbrains IDEs sound like just text editors :) In all seriousness though, for the vast majority of programmers Emacs (or vim for that matter) has no value compared to, say, Jetbrains IDEs. You need dozens of plugins and an unknown number lines of arcane configurations just to have a semblance of a small part of functionality that those IDEs have out of the box.
  - omnicognate 4y ago
    That certainly wasn't the intention of that sentence. Re "has no value" - wevs. It has massive value to me and to a community large enough to have continually supplied me with new and useful functionality and resources for 20 years, most of which have been spent using it alongside either Visual Studio (not "Code") or a JetBrains IDE (mostly Rider, some PyCharm). You use whatever tools you like and I'll decide what tools have value to me.
bigpeopleareold 4y ago
I think a programming language can be viewed as a UI and having a UX: - UI: It's a text based UI that is lazily evaluated (that is, there is always some compilation and/or execution to specifically run for the commands to execute. This UI would fit a certain model of computation, itself being a domain and use-case. - UX: The ergonomics of a programming language, like it's usefulness, accessibility of concepts, its surrounding toolchain, is part of the experience of using this interface to the computer. There is also talk even here on HN about PL features and their utility. That, to me, is a form of user experience. I say this because I think about a programming language's toolchain as the make-or-break aspect of its utility of a language. Can I interface with it well enough without anxiety or anger? :) But, these "lazily evaluated" tools I think form in an aggregate as a user interface to me.