4 ms·

So not only have I studied at a university (a canonically prestigious university FWIW), I have also had the good fortune to work closely with academics and rese

by pacaro 4y ago

So not only have I studied at a university (a canonically prestigious university FWIW), I have also had the good fortune to work closely with academics and researchers in my career. I did not exclude other benefits of a university education in my statement, I simply highlighted one of the things that sets it apart from learning in isolation. How wide a range of subjects one might discover on ones own is arguably broader (although of course not precluded by an academic education either) I am largely self taught in CS (my degree was in another subject), but that had not prevented me from having multiple patents and having published academically too. There are many other factors at play, and where and how you are educated is only one of them.

wolverine876 4y ago
> How wide a range of subjects one might discover on ones own is arguably broader The original claim was about concepts beyond an orthodoxy, but whether concepts or subjects, it's very unlikely you will discover on your own more than a university full of domain experts who spend lifetimes discovering and studying these things. It's not remotely plausible. > I am largely self taught in CS (my degree was in another subject), but that had not prevented me from having multiple patents and having published academically too. Good for you. It doesn't mean you wouldn't have been better off learning CS from experts - especially with all your talent - nor is it a representative sample of education. Most people who don't go to college have no hope of matching its benefits on their own. Also, your field of study was CS. I don't know about orthodoxy taught in CS, but again, in humanities and social sciences, what's taught is how to develop your own thinking. For example, parroting this orthodoxy (and rhetoric) of the anti-intellectual reactionaries is not a sign of well-developed critical thinking.
- FredPret 4y ago
  Learning from experts is unambiguously good. College isn't only learning from experts though.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    So?
    - FredPret 4y ago
      I don't know, trying adding 2 and 2 and see if my argument leads anywhere? Instruction from experts is a good thing, and that part of college is therefore a good thing. But there are many aspects of college that is directly or indirectly not exactly the same thing as sitting there in front of an instructor. Things such as paying tuition, socializing, walking around campus, getting classes on being more woke. These aspects add and detract from the central idea of college, which is instruction by experts. Therefore students have to weigh the total experience and see if it is worth it. The article is saying many of them reckon it is not worth it anymore.

by pacaro 4y ago

wolverine876 4y ago

> How wide a range of subjects one might discover on ones own is arguably broader The original claim was about concepts beyond an orthodoxy, but whether concepts or subjects, it's very unlikely you will discover on your own more than a university full of domain experts who spend lifetimes discovering and studying these things. It's not remotely plausible. > I am largely self taught in CS (my degree was in another subject), but that had not prevented me from having multiple patents and having published academically too. Good for you. It doesn't mean you wouldn't have been better off learning CS from experts - especially with all your talent - nor is it a representative sample of education. Most people who don't go to college have no hope of matching its benefits on their own. Also, your field of study was CS. I don't know about orthodoxy taught in CS, but again, in humanities and social sciences, what's taught is how to develop your own thinking. For example, parroting this orthodoxy (and rhetoric) of the anti-intellectual reactionaries is not a sign of well-developed critical thinking.

FredPret 4y ago
Learning from experts is unambiguously good. College isn't only learning from experts though.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  So?
  - FredPret 4y ago
    I don't know, trying adding 2 and 2 and see if my argument leads anywhere? Instruction from experts is a good thing, and that part of college is therefore a good thing. But there are many aspects of college that is directly or indirectly not exactly the same thing as sitting there in front of an instructor. Things such as paying tuition, socializing, walking around campus, getting classes on being more woke. These aspects add and detract from the central idea of college, which is instruction by experts. Therefore students have to weigh the total experience and see if it is worth it. The article is saying many of them reckon it is not worth it anymore.