5 ms·

Not so easy considering it requires decimatàtion of corn belt state GDP

by kuhewa 4y ago

myshpa 4y ago
We could always grow different crops and practices. Just because we subsidize bad things now (meat, dairy, corn ethanol), doesn't mean it's wise to do so in perpetuity.
- kuhewa 4y ago
  I'm not arguing status quo is wise, but it's folly to pretend that upending the economic mainstay of that whole region would be done "easily". Similarly, replacing corn with a crop that is profitable (without subsidies), suited to the region, and also doesn't require pesticides that affect insects would not be easy.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    > upending the economic mainstay of that whole region would be done "easily" Change the incentives (remove animal subsidies), and the problem will solve itself. There is a big demand for plant based protein now ... we know how to grow peas, beans, lentils ... however it's not profitable to do so now because we continue to subsidize animal agriculture (one of the most harmful things we can do to the environment) with obscene amount of money. That's the main reason plant-based cheeses cost 3x more than cow-milk-based, although it should be other way around. > crop that is profitable (without subsidies), suited to the region, and also doesn't require pesticides that affect insects would not be easy Easy is not the important part. Easy led us to the hell (or purgatory), where we currently are. Those problems you're writing about can be solved with biodiversity. Let's imagine smaller fields, with different crops, interplanted with trees and shrubs to enable a lot of life [0], and you won't have problems with mice or bugs, because diversity will take care of any infestations. If you're interested how to farm economically without pesticides/herbicides, may I suggest movie The Biggest Little Farm (2018), where the role of biodiversity is nicely illustrated. [0] https://fotobanka.chrudimskenoviny.cz/sites/default/files/imagecache/big/a3.jpg https://fotobanka.chrudimskenoviny.cz/sites/default/files/im... [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8969332/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8969332/
    - kuhewa 4y ago
      >Change the incentives (remove animal subsidies), and the problem will solve itself. That's still not easy. That is like saying ending entitlements is an easy way to save a lot of money in the federal budget. That's the entirety of my point. And no offense but I have to chuckle at your example - (and note that organic veggie gardening is my chief hobby and I've studied advances in market gardening for years out of personal interest, and the model absolutely fills a niche). But around the time of the documentary, Apricot Lane Farm was USDA 'small scale' meaning income of sub-$250k a year at a time they had 60 employees... Basically you are suggesting we can replace government subsidies with venture capitalists. There are wicked problems in agriculture and getting even a slight net improvement across environmental/social/economic sustainability metrics is going to be the result of incremental policy, technological and cultural changes, it isn't going to happen by handwaving industrial corn fields currently forming the backbone of rural communities into angel-investor backed biodynamic farms that don't actually need to make money on outputs.
    - kuhewa 4y ago
      >Change the incentives (remove animal subsidies), and the problem will solve itself. That's still not easy. That is like saying ending entitlements is an easy way to save a lot of money in the federal budget. That's the entirety of my point - its a bit facile to call a change easy just because you can put it in one sentence. And no offense but I have to chuckle at your example - (and note that organic veggie gardening is my chief hobby and I've studied advances in market gardening for years out of personal interest, and the model absolutely fills a niche). But around the time of the documentary, Apricot Lane Farm was USDA 'small scale' meaning income of sub-$250k a year at a time they had 60 employees... Basically you are suggesting we can replace government subsidies with venture capitalists. There are wicked problems in agriculture and getting even a slight net improvement across environmental/social/economic sustainability metrics is going to be the result of incremental policy, technological and cultural changes, it isn't going to happen by handwaving industrial corn fields currently forming the backbone of rural communities into angel-investor backed biodynamic farms that don't actually need to make money on outputs.
adrianN 4y ago
We could replace corn fields with solar panels for like 10x the energy yield.

Not so easy considering it requires decimatàtion of corn belt state GDP

by kuhewa 4y ago

Not so easy considering it requires decimatàtion of corn belt state GDP

We could always grow different crops and practices. Just because we subsidize bad things now (meat, dairy, corn ethanol), doesn't mean it's wise to do so in perpetuity.

kuhewa 4y ago
I'm not arguing status quo is wise, but it's folly to pretend that upending the economic mainstay of that whole region would be done "easily". Similarly, replacing corn with a crop that is profitable (without subsidies), suited to the region, and also doesn't require pesticides that affect insects would not be easy.
- myshpa 4y ago
  > upending the economic mainstay of that whole region would be done "easily" Change the incentives (remove animal subsidies), and the problem will solve itself. There is a big demand for plant based protein now ... we know how to grow peas, beans, lentils ... however it's not profitable to do so now because we continue to subsidize animal agriculture (one of the most harmful things we can do to the environment) with obscene amount of money. That's the main reason plant-based cheeses cost 3x more than cow-milk-based, although it should be other way around. > crop that is profitable (without subsidies), suited to the region, and also doesn't require pesticides that affect insects would not be easy Easy is not the important part. Easy led us to the hell (or purgatory), where we currently are. Those problems you're writing about can be solved with biodiversity. Let's imagine smaller fields, with different crops, interplanted with trees and shrubs to enable a lot of life [0], and you won't have problems with mice or bugs, because diversity will take care of any infestations. If you're interested how to farm economically without pesticides/herbicides, may I suggest movie The Biggest Little Farm (2018), where the role of biodiversity is nicely illustrated. [0] https://fotobanka.chrudimskenoviny.cz/sites/default/files/imagecache/big/a3.jpg https://fotobanka.chrudimskenoviny.cz/sites/default/files/im... [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8969332/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8969332/
  - kuhewa 4y ago
    >Change the incentives (remove animal subsidies), and the problem will solve itself. That's still not easy. That is like saying ending entitlements is an easy way to save a lot of money in the federal budget. That's the entirety of my point. And no offense but I have to chuckle at your example - (and note that organic veggie gardening is my chief hobby and I've studied advances in market gardening for years out of personal interest, and the model absolutely fills a niche). But around the time of the documentary, Apricot Lane Farm was USDA 'small scale' meaning income of sub-$250k a year at a time they had 60 employees... Basically you are suggesting we can replace government subsidies with venture capitalists. There are wicked problems in agriculture and getting even a slight net improvement across environmental/social/economic sustainability metrics is going to be the result of incremental policy, technological and cultural changes, it isn't going to happen by handwaving industrial corn fields currently forming the backbone of rural communities into angel-investor backed biodynamic farms that don't actually need to make money on outputs.
  - kuhewa 4y ago
    >Change the incentives (remove animal subsidies), and the problem will solve itself. That's still not easy. That is like saying ending entitlements is an easy way to save a lot of money in the federal budget. That's the entirety of my point - its a bit facile to call a change easy just because you can put it in one sentence. And no offense but I have to chuckle at your example - (and note that organic veggie gardening is my chief hobby and I've studied advances in market gardening for years out of personal interest, and the model absolutely fills a niche). But around the time of the documentary, Apricot Lane Farm was USDA 'small scale' meaning income of sub-$250k a year at a time they had 60 employees... Basically you are suggesting we can replace government subsidies with venture capitalists. There are wicked problems in agriculture and getting even a slight net improvement across environmental/social/economic sustainability metrics is going to be the result of incremental policy, technological and cultural changes, it isn't going to happen by handwaving industrial corn fields currently forming the backbone of rural communities into angel-investor backed biodynamic farms that don't actually need to make money on outputs.

adrianN 4y ago

We could replace corn fields with solar panels for like 10x the energy yield.