6 ms·

Thanks for the reccomendation! I am a bit confused though. Is 'a first' the top score on an exam or like a suma cum laude? Free link to the book here: https:/

Thanks for the reccomendation! I am a bit confused though. Is 'a first' the top score on an exam or like a suma cum laude? Free link to the book here: https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/waughe-bridesheadrevisited1945/waughe-bridesheadrevisited1945-00-h.html https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/waughe-bridesheadrevisited1945/w...

OJFord 4y ago
People sometimes talk about it in terms of exams in the sense that they'd achieve a first overall if that exam was 'it', or that it brings their average up etc. - but strictly speaking you can only achieve first class (or any other) honours for the degree as a whole. It's commonly (but not necessarily) >70% overall. Equivalent to achieving some high GPA range.
- zinckiwi 4y ago
  American translation: graduating with anything other than a 4.0 or a 1.0 is wasted.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Or rather between them, yes. (Or a bit lower than 4.0, that's perfect right? Or do you not have to get full marks on every exam to achieve that?)
    - antasvara 4y ago
      4.0 would mean that you got a letter grade of "A" in every class. In the US, that usually means you got a final grade of 95% or higher in every class.
      - TylerE 4y ago
        95? I have never seen that. 10 point seems to be the most common (A=90+).
        AlchemistCamp 4y ago
        At my school, 90, 91, and 92 were considered an A- and worth only 3.7 grade points.
        TylerE 4y ago
        That’s a little more normal. In my state Grades 1-8 ran on a 7pt scale. A was 93+, B was 85-93
      - wombatpm 4y ago
        In high school maybe. All my stem classes in college were graded on a curve. First exam freshman year was physics. I walked out thinking I failed. There were questions I did not answer. Later that night they posted raw scores. Mine was 48 pts out of 100. I was ready to withdraw and reconsider engineering as a major. Later still they posted the cut offs. 40 was the cutoff for an A. Avg was 36 and the cutoff for a B. My 48 was the 4th highest score. I would have preferred the British system
    - zamfi 4y ago
      C is often the lowest passing grade — so, same saying really.
  - Balgair 4y ago
    Oh got it now, thanks! Here in the US we have a saying of " C equals Degree", so kinda the exact opposite of the UK saying. Strange!
    - JamisonM 4y ago
      I have always known it as "C's get degrees" but that's sort of a crass expression, not really the equivalent of the quote which is presented as "life advice" for the enrichment of those that receive it. "C's get degrees": The bare minimum to get the credential is the optimal use of resources. "You want either a first or a fourth. There is no value in anything between.": Either excel at school to maximize your achievement or don't worry about your grades and simply pursue whatever comes your way from the opportunity to be there to enrich your life.
    - a_e_k 4y ago
      Amusingly along those lines, I once had a prof in my Ph.D. program tell me that if I was getting all A's in my coursework, I was doing it wrong. (I.e., not spending enough time on research.)
      - dilznoofus 4y ago
        This is pretty common at other places - my PhD advisor was exasperated that a polymer chemist would get an A in Physical Chemistry II, when I had a national lab collaboration to work on, a fellowship to write, and a first-author paper to get out the door. In retrospect? Yeah, I probably should have taken a B and finished relevant things faster. I have almost zero use for my understanding of the mathematic accounting of the particle-in-a-box. Of course in grad school a C is a failure, so the wiggle room is slightly less generous.
    - UncleEntity 4y ago
      Talk about grade inflation… Back in my day it was “Ds get degrees”.
cperciva 4y ago
"First" means "first class honours" aka. the highest designation of degree. The US equivalent is summa cum laude, yes.
- OJFord 4y ago
  It's not quite equivalent in that it's more standardised and every university uses it. I think it's more accurately equivalent to 3.x GPA or above; probably you could find graduate entry requirements (though most are probably fine with at least a 2:1/upper second) stating exactly that as their equivalent admissions criterion.
  - cperciva 4y ago
    Let me rephrase that. An Oxford first is equivalent to summa cum laude from an Ivy League. Yes, the standard for graduate admission around the world (and also other things, like undergraduate research awards in Canada) is upper second.
    - zamfi 4y ago
      Not the same — Oxford first means top third of the class, roughly. Summa at Harvard is top 5%, a much higher bar.
      - cperciva 4y ago
        Yes. I think the top 1/3 of Oxford undergrads are on par with the top 5% of Harvard undergrads. This is not true of other places which award Firsts.
        obscur 4y ago
        Your first sentence is interesting, why do you think that?
        OJFord 4y ago
lawtalkinghuman 4y ago
First = highest undergraduate degree classification in the British system. Universities in the UK treat a degree from the US with a 3.7 or 3.8 or higher GPA as equivalent to a first according to Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_c...

OJFord 4y ago

People sometimes talk about it in terms of exams in the sense that they'd achieve a first overall if that exam was 'it', or that it brings their average up etc. - but strictly speaking you can only achieve first class (or any other) honours for the degree as a whole. It's commonly (but not necessarily) >70% overall. Equivalent to achieving some high GPA range.

zinckiwi 4y ago
American translation: graduating with anything other than a 4.0 or a 1.0 is wasted.
- OJFord 4y ago
  Or rather between them, yes. (Or a bit lower than 4.0, that's perfect right? Or do you not have to get full marks on every exam to achieve that?)
  - antasvara 4y ago
    4.0 would mean that you got a letter grade of "A" in every class. In the US, that usually means you got a final grade of 95% or higher in every class.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      95? I have never seen that. 10 point seems to be the most common (A=90+).
      - AlchemistCamp 4y ago
        At my school, 90, 91, and 92 were considered an A- and worth only 3.7 grade points.
        TylerE 4y ago
        That’s a little more normal. In my state Grades 1-8 ran on a 7pt scale. A was 93+, B was 85-93
    - wombatpm 4y ago
      In high school maybe. All my stem classes in college were graded on a curve. First exam freshman year was physics. I walked out thinking I failed. There were questions I did not answer. Later that night they posted raw scores. Mine was 48 pts out of 100. I was ready to withdraw and reconsider engineering as a major. Later still they posted the cut offs. 40 was the cutoff for an A. Avg was 36 and the cutoff for a B. My 48 was the 4th highest score. I would have preferred the British system
  - zamfi 4y ago
    C is often the lowest passing grade — so, same saying really.
- Balgair 4y ago
  Oh got it now, thanks! Here in the US we have a saying of " C equals Degree", so kinda the exact opposite of the UK saying. Strange!
  - JamisonM 4y ago
    I have always known it as "C's get degrees" but that's sort of a crass expression, not really the equivalent of the quote which is presented as "life advice" for the enrichment of those that receive it. "C's get degrees": The bare minimum to get the credential is the optimal use of resources. "You want either a first or a fourth. There is no value in anything between.": Either excel at school to maximize your achievement or don't worry about your grades and simply pursue whatever comes your way from the opportunity to be there to enrich your life.
  - a_e_k 4y ago
    Amusingly along those lines, I once had a prof in my Ph.D. program tell me that if I was getting all A's in my coursework, I was doing it wrong. (I.e., not spending enough time on research.)
    - dilznoofus 4y ago
      This is pretty common at other places - my PhD advisor was exasperated that a polymer chemist would get an A in Physical Chemistry II, when I had a national lab collaboration to work on, a fellowship to write, and a first-author paper to get out the door. In retrospect? Yeah, I probably should have taken a B and finished relevant things faster. I have almost zero use for my understanding of the mathematic accounting of the particle-in-a-box. Of course in grad school a C is a failure, so the wiggle room is slightly less generous.
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    Talk about grade inflation… Back in my day it was “Ds get degrees”.

cperciva 4y ago

"First" means "first class honours" aka. the highest designation of degree. The US equivalent is summa cum laude, yes.

OJFord 4y ago
It's not quite equivalent in that it's more standardised and every university uses it. I think it's more accurately equivalent to 3.x GPA or above; probably you could find graduate entry requirements (though most are probably fine with at least a 2:1/upper second) stating exactly that as their equivalent admissions criterion.
- cperciva 4y ago
  Let me rephrase that. An Oxford first is equivalent to summa cum laude from an Ivy League. Yes, the standard for graduate admission around the world (and also other things, like undergraduate research awards in Canada) is upper second.
  - zamfi 4y ago
    Not the same — Oxford first means top third of the class, roughly. Summa at Harvard is top 5%, a much higher bar.
    - cperciva 4y ago
      Yes. I think the top 1/3 of Oxford undergrads are on par with the top 5% of Harvard undergrads. This is not true of other places which award Firsts.
      - obscur 4y ago
        Your first sentence is interesting, why do you think that?
        OJFord 4y ago

lawtalkinghuman 4y ago

First = highest undergraduate degree classification in the British system. Universities in the UK treat a degree from the US with a 3.7 or 3.8 or higher GPA as equivalent to a first according to Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_c...