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I completely disagree. I firmly believe that either you are born with the ability to be a programmer or you're not. That's not saying that it's good or bad, b

I completely disagree. I firmly believe that either you are born with the ability to be a programmer or you're not. That's not saying that it's good or bad, but I believe a lot of it is just how your brain is configured. It's as innate as the ability to shoot baskets, or throw a football, or as innate as gaining energy when interacting with people (extrovert) vs losing energy when interacting with people (introvert). Case in point: there are some people who are extremely smart, but don't have the ability to visualize things like a map in their head. I know someone who loves cars, has been into cars since he was a teenager, and loves driving. However, for the life of him, he can't read a map. He's not dumb at all, he's very intelligent and excellent with computers. But he has no ability to visualize things in his head and spin them around. So when he's given instructions on where to go, he needs landmarks, ie. "Turn left at the McDonald's and turn right when you get to the 4th traffic light." He can't process "Go north on Main Street, and then head East along Central Ave." I believe programming is the same way. There's a type of inner mental gymnastics that you need to do in order to program well, because a lot of the things are very cerebral. Some people just can't do it. I'm not saying that they can't be taught how to program to an adequate level, but the fact that it so goes against the mesh of how their thought process works, it just won't be enjoyable to them. They will never be better than adequate. Of course, most of us here probably can't picture that, so many of you might think I'm wrong. But put it in another perspective. We can all be taught to throw a football perfectly. But does that mean we'll be any good at it? Probably not. If we don't have the physical ability to throw a football more than 10-15 yards (like me), will it be fun for us? Probably not. But if you were a football player, hanging out with a bunch of other football players, you wouldn't understand why everyone can't throw a football more than 40 yards. The same goes for Sales. I've come to learn from my friends who are salesmen that the sales cycle is largely algorithmic. So it can be taught. But getting out in front of customers every day, chit-chatting, engaging them, etc, is something that many of us simply aren't built to do. It takes a certain personality type to actually enjoy this. And there are plenty of them that do enjoy this and make vast sums of money. But if I were put in that position, I would hate every second, and would likely get fired. So yes, programming can be taught, but I truly believe that there is an innate mental configuration that determines whether or not you can digest and learn the information and whether you'll be good at it, and more importantly whether or not you'll actually enjoy it.

angrycoder 15y ago
Comments like this really undermine what it means when someone is good at something, be it coding, throwing a ball, writing, what have you. It is not a matter of being born with it. It isn't a matter of being smart. It is all fucking work. It is never being satisfied. Its trying so hard and getting so pissed off that you throw the ball in the dumpster, that you smash your fist into the keyboard and walk away, that you tear up the papers and throw them in trash. But you always come back, because you won't let it beat you. You have to know how it works. You have to know how they do that thing you saw them do. You want to do it like they do. You want to do it better. So it isn't pixie dust, it isn't innate ability, it isn't being smart. It is all fucking work.
- smallblacksun 15y ago
  >So it isn't pixie dust, it isn't innate ability, it isn't being smart. It is all fucking work. No, it isn't. I knew a girl in high school who worked far harder than I ever did, and had far worse grades (particularly in math and science). She literally spent 2-3 hours every day doing homework and studying, while I spent 15-30 minutes. If you talked to her, she seemed perfectly normal, she just had tremendous difficulty with academic work. While hard work is important, natural gifts make a huge difference.
  - Volpe 15y ago
    Could it be the reverse? That is you didn't have a natural gift, she had a problem learning the way everyone else was?
- steve8918 15y ago
  Just because programming for YOU comes naturally doesn't mean it does for others. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. The point is that people can always learn to be adequate programmers. But if the experience of programming is so different from the way they process information, that the act of programming is mentally uncomfortable for them, then they will never be great. The discomfort has NOTHING to do with hard work. It's like sales. You could spend your whole life being a decent salesperson but if you hate interacting with people you'll never be a great salesperson that closes multi-million dollar deals. It's as simple as that. If you can't visualize a map, if your spatial abilities aren't strong, then having to interact daily where you need to do that would be frustrating as hell and you would hate it.

angrycoder 15y ago

Comments like this really undermine what it means when someone is good at something, be it coding, throwing a ball, writing, what have you. It is not a matter of being born with it. It isn't a matter of being smart. It is all fucking work. It is never being satisfied. Its trying so hard and getting so pissed off that you throw the ball in the dumpster, that you smash your fist into the keyboard and walk away, that you tear up the papers and throw them in trash. But you always come back, because you won't let it beat you. You have to know how it works. You have to know how they do that thing you saw them do. You want to do it like they do. You want to do it better. So it isn't pixie dust, it isn't innate ability, it isn't being smart. It is all fucking work.

smallblacksun 15y ago
>So it isn't pixie dust, it isn't innate ability, it isn't being smart. It is all fucking work. No, it isn't. I knew a girl in high school who worked far harder than I ever did, and had far worse grades (particularly in math and science). She literally spent 2-3 hours every day doing homework and studying, while I spent 15-30 minutes. If you talked to her, she seemed perfectly normal, she just had tremendous difficulty with academic work. While hard work is important, natural gifts make a huge difference.
- Volpe 15y ago
  Could it be the reverse? That is you didn't have a natural gift, she had a problem learning the way everyone else was?
steve8918 15y ago
Just because programming for YOU comes naturally doesn't mean it does for others. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. The point is that people can always learn to be adequate programmers. But if the experience of programming is so different from the way they process information, that the act of programming is mentally uncomfortable for them, then they will never be great. The discomfort has NOTHING to do with hard work. It's like sales. You could spend your whole life being a decent salesperson but if you hate interacting with people you'll never be a great salesperson that closes multi-million dollar deals. It's as simple as that. If you can't visualize a map, if your spatial abilities aren't strong, then having to interact daily where you need to do that would be frustrating as hell and you would hate it.