5 ms·

Hey - I'm one of the founders of Curebit, and yes - it was a boneheaded move.. We had a different homepage, were a/b testing different pages, came across the 3

Hey - I'm one of the founders of Curebit, and yes - it was a boneheaded move.. We had a different homepage, were a/b testing different pages, came across the 37signals post and were like 'wow we should see how that converts!' We are big fans of rails and what 37signals is doing and did not really think through the implications of what we were doing. We just kind of thought about it as a fun test to run. Clearly it was stupid. It was not meant to offend anyone and we are adding credit where due. (We'll take it down if DHH insists!) Our new designer will take a crack at more than our homepage... we need all our UI "designed".. not redesigned, but designed - because we're primarily backend guys. Yes, this landing page variation was heavily inspired (read: blatantly ripped off) from Highrise -- because these are the peeps we aspire to, and they've done a lot of testing to figure out what works: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2991-behind-the-scenes-ab-testing-part-3-final http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2991-behind-the-scenes-ab-tes... We're running a "ghetto test" - this homepage variant does not even share a common CSS file with the rest of the code base. It's been live less than a week. The idea was to just see how the conversion characteristics were before investing a lot of time into making a "real design" out of the lessons (prominent testimonial, light copy focused on value props). Hence the hot linking, inline styles, etc. It is personally my fault for not including a credit to Highrise for the design.. that credit is well deserved and will be added shortly - a big oversight on my part.. we launch some stuff fast (other things deliberately), and this was one of those fast things. Lesson to us: add credits, and be more explicit what we're testing... ask permission instead of asking for forgiveness. In the meantime, please forgive us? :)

papalalu 15y ago
I don't think credit is really going to cut it in this situation.. and permission is unlikely to have been given had you actually asked.
- dlokshin 15y ago
  To be fair, everyone and their mother has ripped off 37 Signals pricing table and this never seemed to bother anyone.
  - dshultz 15y ago
    I agree - when it comes to web design, people steal ideas from everywhere. The way I see this as a bit different, is that they actually took the design verbatim and then cross linked the assets...so technically, they stole the bandwidth and images which may have royalty's associated with them. As for duplicating the layout and taking the concepts, that's fair game in my opinion. The actual graphics should not be stolen and re-used.
  - lachyg 15y ago
    They ripped off the concept and idea of the pricing table, yet they didn't flat out take the design and just modify the text. These guys took every single element, changed no style.
neilkelty 15y ago
You realize you set your company up for enormous civil penalties here - $200-$150,000. And, since you've admitted to stealing their site straight up - it might be "willful and deliberate", it could be considered a criminal act. I'm no lawyer - but one probably wrote this: http://www.lib.purdue.edu/uco/CopyrightBasics/penalties.html http://www.lib.purdue.edu/uco/CopyrightBasics/penalties.html
timsally 15y ago
We'll take it down if DHH insists! It is personally my fault for not including a credit to Highrise for the design Lesson to us: add credits Crediting someone for their property doesn't make stealing it ok. By default, stealing is wrong. Waiting for an objection and/or linking to the owner doesn't change that. This seems like a problematic worldview for a young company.
- earbitscom 15y ago
  It's not stealing, it's copying. 37signals still has their original. Let's get an upvote here because I know everyone in this forum agrees.
  - zefhous 15y ago
    Actually, since they are hotlinking to some assets directly from the other site, they are indeed stealing. Also, please don't ask for upvotes or assume that others agree with you.
    - earbitscom 15y ago
      Oh, trust me, the upvote request and everything about this comment were filled with deeply engrained sarcasm.
      - zefhous 15y ago
        Sorry about that! Now I feel quite silly...
        redorb 15y ago
        I actually needed your comment to understand, so it was useful at least once.
  - dissident 15y ago
    I actually don't care that they copied the design, but that YC actually funded people who thought that was a professional thing to do.
dmerfield 15y ago
Close, but no cigar: http://mee.la/28983 http://mee.la/28983
- papalalu 15y ago
  oof
- deleted 15y ago
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- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- sachingulaya 15y ago
  Wow, they copied both of their designs. Ouch.
redguava 15y ago
Your response here makes it worse not better. You copied from them blatantly including linking to their assets and then your first lesson learnt is "add credits"... really? You are still not planning on taking it down, just adding a credit to their site? I personally would never use a service that has this level of integrity, I wouldn't trust any of my information with it.
kingsidharth 15y ago
Lesson to you: Make your own shit if you want credibility.
ahoyhere 15y ago
The real lesson here is a hidden one for YCombinator startups: YC gives you money, but they apparently do not provide you with advisors, handlers, lawyers or PR people who will intervene to stop you from making such a boneheaded, potentially explosive move, nor step in and help you figure out how to gracefully recover from a mistake. Seriously? Credit where credit is due? Ha ha, it was stupid, we stole your design AND your assets, hee, aren't we a trip, funding, something something, TechCrunch, split testing makes it alllll better.
- shagg 15y ago
  If you need an adviser, handler, lawyer or PR person to tell you "don't blatantly copy/steal other people's shit", you shouldn't be in business, you should go back to kindergarten.
  - ahoyhere 15y ago
    I agree. But the business of companies like YCombinator is to simply bet on lots of inexperienced, green young people and hope some of them pan out. When they invite you to their program or (better yet) get you more funding, it probably feels like a mandate. Which makes things so much worse without guidance.
keesmacklin 15y ago
Looks like you were using the design for a new product as well (http://www.sharebooster.com http://www.sharebooster.com). http://i.imgur.com/MXCuN.png http://i.imgur.com/MXCuN.png You going to take that down also?
- WadeF 15y ago
  That logo looks an awful lot like the Luanchbit logo as well. http://www.launchbit.com/ http://www.launchbit.com/
  - joemoon 15y ago
    By "looks an awful lot like" WadeF actually means "looks exactly like"... I had to really concentrate to see the difference.
- designNERD 15y ago
  Wow these guys have absolutely no integrity.
asianmack 15y ago
You missed this in the 37signals post you referenced. "Please note: What works for us may not work for you. Please do your own testing. Your conversion rates may suffer if you copy us."
- gmansoor 15y ago
  In this case, its certainly would suffer
dkrich 15y ago
Please stop using the term "ghetto testing." Nobody knows what the hell that means and nobody thinks that that's okay. The proper course is to apologize, take it down, and move on. Not make lame, half-assed excuses which just perpetuate the situation.
rskopecek 15y ago
Allangrant, as you stated you are a back end developer. While that's good to note, it doesn't exclude the outcome that DHH and the community have already commented on. However, I think something that is missing is a little more guidance. Other than the issues others have communicated, the web page showed that your company hasn't established, even in very raw form, it's own style that is best for its users. It's normal to reflect and be inspired by others designs. I would even recommend that you take screenshots of the design styles that speak to you. From that point though, the screen shots should be used as "internal" discussion materials that help your company find the essence of its own style. That style should always be taking what's best for your product/service and user base, into the style characteristics. Once you've found your core style, express it and iterate over it using each iteration as a piece of more relavent inspiration to your style (37Signals recently released a cool video on their blog that demonstrates this process through their eyes). The results should make you proud enough to express and share it with your customers. Only at that point do you finally make it public. After that keep iterating over it. If you utilize external inspiration, make sure that you've iterated over it enough that your style doesn't feel like a knockoff. You should be able to identify this easily and odds are, if you've been going through all this it won't be. However, if you have concerns just take screen shots of your style and the screen shots of what externally inspired you,...show them to some people who don't work for your company and weren't involved with the design process. They should be able to 1) pick up on your style and 2) agree that it isn't a knockoff. Given the situation you are in, I would recommend this heavily to help give piece of mind. I realize that you wanted to gain from the lessons learned from 37Signals internal design iteration process as well as other companies. However, if you note what I said above, it means they were focusing "also" on their product and their customers. Which means if you directly reflect your design from theirs, you weren't focusing enough on your customers. You might have intended to give your customers a great design experience, but without going through the process above, your website is considered not authentic...and as a result people focus on the their feeling of "this looks oddly familiar" instead of focusing on what your product can do for them. Many, if not all of the people who have commented have gone through their own artistic design process to build one or more designs. And at times it can be "hell" (fun, but still) to create something that the designer feels is good enough to share/use. It is a compliment that someone is inspired by your design. But when it's closer to a knockoff it can make the designer feel like they sacrificed him/her-self for your free ride. If they intended for it to be given away, then the benefit you receive gives them whatever good feeling they were looking for. I'm sure you have, like many people, worked insane hours that took away from family, friends, and even yourself. I hope humility, honesty, and hard work guide your company to a design that you can be proud of. Good luck and I hope this all helps.
jsavimbi 15y ago
> did not really think through the implications of what we were doing But the part about stealing someone else's work and passing it off as your own obviously had some thought put into it. One could only imagine what other parts of your app were repurposed from third parties.

papalalu 15y ago

I don't think credit is really going to cut it in this situation.. and permission is unlikely to have been given had you actually asked.

dlokshin 15y ago
To be fair, everyone and their mother has ripped off 37 Signals pricing table and this never seemed to bother anyone.
- dshultz 15y ago
  I agree - when it comes to web design, people steal ideas from everywhere. The way I see this as a bit different, is that they actually took the design verbatim and then cross linked the assets...so technically, they stole the bandwidth and images which may have royalty's associated with them. As for duplicating the layout and taking the concepts, that's fair game in my opinion. The actual graphics should not be stolen and re-used.
- lachyg 15y ago
  They ripped off the concept and idea of the pricing table, yet they didn't flat out take the design and just modify the text. These guys took every single element, changed no style.

neilkelty 15y ago

You realize you set your company up for enormous civil penalties here - $200-$150,000. And, since you've admitted to stealing their site straight up - it might be "willful and deliberate", it could be considered a criminal act. I'm no lawyer - but one probably wrote this: http://www.lib.purdue.edu/uco/CopyrightBasics/penalties.html http://www.lib.purdue.edu/uco/CopyrightBasics/penalties.html

timsally 15y ago

We'll take it down if DHH insists! It is personally my fault for not including a credit to Highrise for the design Lesson to us: add credits Crediting someone for their property doesn't make stealing it ok. By default, stealing is wrong. Waiting for an objection and/or linking to the owner doesn't change that. This seems like a problematic worldview for a young company.

earbitscom 15y ago
It's not stealing, it's copying. 37signals still has their original. Let's get an upvote here because I know everyone in this forum agrees.
- zefhous 15y ago
  Actually, since they are hotlinking to some assets directly from the other site, they are indeed stealing. Also, please don't ask for upvotes or assume that others agree with you.
  - earbitscom 15y ago
    Oh, trust me, the upvote request and everything about this comment were filled with deeply engrained sarcasm.
    - zefhous 15y ago
      Sorry about that! Now I feel quite silly...
      - redorb 15y ago
        I actually needed your comment to understand, so it was useful at least once.
- dissident 15y ago
  I actually don't care that they copied the design, but that YC actually funded people who thought that was a professional thing to do.

dmerfield 15y ago

Close, but no cigar: http://mee.la/28983 http://mee.la/28983

papalalu 15y ago
oof
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
sachingulaya 15y ago
Wow, they copied both of their designs. Ouch.

redguava 15y ago

Your response here makes it worse not better. You copied from them blatantly including linking to their assets and then your first lesson learnt is "add credits"... really? You are still not planning on taking it down, just adding a credit to their site? I personally would never use a service that has this level of integrity, I wouldn't trust any of my information with it.

kingsidharth 15y ago

Lesson to you: Make your own shit if you want credibility.

ahoyhere 15y ago

The real lesson here is a hidden one for YCombinator startups: YC gives you money, but they apparently do not provide you with advisors, handlers, lawyers or PR people who will intervene to stop you from making such a boneheaded, potentially explosive move, nor step in and help you figure out how to gracefully recover from a mistake. Seriously? Credit where credit is due? Ha ha, it was stupid, we stole your design AND your assets, hee, aren't we a trip, funding, something something, TechCrunch, split testing makes it alllll better.

shagg 15y ago
If you need an adviser, handler, lawyer or PR person to tell you "don't blatantly copy/steal other people's shit", you shouldn't be in business, you should go back to kindergarten.
- ahoyhere 15y ago
  I agree. But the business of companies like YCombinator is to simply bet on lots of inexperienced, green young people and hope some of them pan out. When they invite you to their program or (better yet) get you more funding, it probably feels like a mandate. Which makes things so much worse without guidance.

keesmacklin 15y ago

Looks like you were using the design for a new product as well (http://www.sharebooster.com http://www.sharebooster.com). http://i.imgur.com/MXCuN.png http://i.imgur.com/MXCuN.png You going to take that down also?

WadeF 15y ago
That logo looks an awful lot like the Luanchbit logo as well. http://www.launchbit.com/ http://www.launchbit.com/
- joemoon 15y ago
  By "looks an awful lot like" WadeF actually means "looks exactly like"... I had to really concentrate to see the difference.
designNERD 15y ago
Wow these guys have absolutely no integrity.

asianmack 15y ago

You missed this in the 37signals post you referenced. "Please note: What works for us may not work for you. Please do your own testing. Your conversion rates may suffer if you copy us."

gmansoor 15y ago
In this case, its certainly would suffer

dkrich 15y ago

Please stop using the term "ghetto testing." Nobody knows what the hell that means and nobody thinks that that's okay. The proper course is to apologize, take it down, and move on. Not make lame, half-assed excuses which just perpetuate the situation.

rskopecek 15y ago

Allangrant, as you stated you are a back end developer. While that's good to note, it doesn't exclude the outcome that DHH and the community have already commented on. However, I think something that is missing is a little more guidance. Other than the issues others have communicated, the web page showed that your company hasn't established, even in very raw form, it's own style that is best for its users. It's normal to reflect and be inspired by others designs. I would even recommend that you take screenshots of the design styles that speak to you. From that point though, the screen shots should be used as "internal" discussion materials that help your company find the essence of its own style. That style should always be taking what's best for your product/service and user base, into the style characteristics. Once you've found your core style, express it and iterate over it using each iteration as a piece of more relavent inspiration to your style (37Signals recently released a cool video on their blog that demonstrates this process through their eyes). The results should make you proud enough to express and share it with your customers. Only at that point do you finally make it public. After that keep iterating over it. If you utilize external inspiration, make sure that you've iterated over it enough that your style doesn't feel like a knockoff. You should be able to identify this easily and odds are, if you've been going through all this it won't be. However, if you have concerns just take screen shots of your style and the screen shots of what externally inspired you,...show them to some people who don't work for your company and weren't involved with the design process. They should be able to 1) pick up on your style and 2) agree that it isn't a knockoff. Given the situation you are in, I would recommend this heavily to help give piece of mind. I realize that you wanted to gain from the lessons learned from 37Signals internal design iteration process as well as other companies. However, if you note what I said above, it means they were focusing "also" on their product and their customers. Which means if you directly reflect your design from theirs, you weren't focusing enough on your customers. You might have intended to give your customers a great design experience, but without going through the process above, your website is considered not authentic...and as a result people focus on the their feeling of "this looks oddly familiar" instead of focusing on what your product can do for them. Many, if not all of the people who have commented have gone through their own artistic design process to build one or more designs. And at times it can be "hell" (fun, but still) to create something that the designer feels is good enough to share/use. It is a compliment that someone is inspired by your design. But when it's closer to a knockoff it can make the designer feel like they sacrificed him/her-self for your free ride. If they intended for it to be given away, then the benefit you receive gives them whatever good feeling they were looking for. I'm sure you have, like many people, worked insane hours that took away from family, friends, and even yourself. I hope humility, honesty, and hard work guide your company to a design that you can be proud of. Good luck and I hope this all helps.

jsavimbi 15y ago

> did not really think through the implications of what we were doing But the part about stealing someone else's work and passing it off as your own obviously had some thought put into it. One could only imagine what other parts of your app were repurposed from third parties.