3 ms·

I'm not so sure, my experience tells me differently.. I am a thin guy with very low body fat. As soon as I told my doctor that I had woken up 2-3 times with my

by clsec 4y ago

I'm not so sure, my experience tells me differently.. I am a thin guy with very low body fat. As soon as I told my doctor that I had woken up 2-3 times with my soft pallet dry & semi-collapsed, also that I would wake up regularly with a dry mouth, he immediately sent me for a sleep test. I went and did the test and the results were that I had mild sleep apnea. The sleep doctor told me that they were ordering a CPAP machine for me. I asked why I needed it for mild apnea and also told them I wouldn't use it. They ordered it anyway and told me to take the issue up with my doctor. While all this was going on I was in the process of reducing the amount of meds I took (bad accident in 2010). I also started reading up on & studying sleep apnea. One of the first things I learned, and that worked, was keeping my mouth shut during sleep (many ways to accomplish that). The other thing I learned is that Big Pharma/FDA does a horrible job of listing medication side effects. I say that because "causes sleep apnea" was not on the list of side effects for carbamazeine (used for my peripheral neuropathy). As soon as I stopped the carbamazepine the apnea symptoms vanished. I have no need for a CPAP, it was ordered and I've received many calls about it, but there it sits at the sleep doctor's office..

rco8786 4y ago
This seems to jive exactly with what OP was saying. In that they diagnose you with apnea, throw a CPAP machine at you, and then do no follow up. I’m curious what part of this you are saying is not aligning with OP?
- clsec 4y ago
  I'm not fat. I was immediately diagnosed and rushed to a sleep doctor.
wnolens 4y ago
I had the same experience. Sleep study was a complete joke - I slept in a creepy hotel like room in a clinic for maybe 3h total. Uncomfortable and totally different sleep then at home. AHI of 5, given CPAP with no follow up. It really felt like this sleep Doctor got paid to hand out machines. Hacked the settings, used it for 8months then quit cold turkey as a test. Felt the same. My sleep improved more from: Drastically reducing alcohol, smoking, weed. Septum correction and tonsil removal. Sleep alone in bed in complete darkness in a cool room.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gumby 4y ago
> The other thing I learned is that Big Pharma/FDA does a horrible job of listing medication side effects. I say that because "causes sleep apnea" was not on the list of side effects for carbamazeine Having designed and run clinical trials, I think your assertion based on a single experience is unreasonable. Companies are very interested in unexpected events, particularly bad ones (called “adverse events” in the jargon). Viagra was “discovered” because of an unanticipated side effect of a drug being tested for a heart disorder. That long list of side effect warnings? The companies love that list because it reduces legal risk (and marketing risk: doctors will tell patients what to look for and/or will avoid giving it to patients at risk of effect X). While it seems plausible to me that sleep apnea could be a side effect of a drug like carbamazepine (though it’s not a benzo) it was not reported to any statistically significant extent. since you have to report all AEs, the FDA will, in some cases, zero in on one that was reported at a minor level for additional study, because someone in the review panel thought worthy of investigation due to some scientific issue in their specialty. Drug companies hate that of course, but that’s one reason why there’s a review panel rather than a single reviewer.
- clsec 4y ago
  While I respect your expertise in the field, I disagree. >Companies are very interested in unexpected events, particularly bad ones (called “adverse events” in the jargon). Viagra was “discovered” because of an unanticipated side effect of a drug being tested for a heart disorder. Tell that to Moderna and Pfizer. They, nor the FDA, have shown any interest in adverse events reported by both patients and doctors to VAERS [1], unless whatever hypothetical minimum number of people report it. I've had, as well as Dr. Greg Poland [2], a pretty severe adverse reaction to the mRNA vaccines but our problems remain unaddressed because not enough people have reported it, science knows little about our reaction, or it doesn't monetarily benefit anyone (liability or profit). As for the Viagra discovery, it was a monetary benefit. Scientists and researchers in the medical field need to realize everyone is different and we have different reactions to various drugs. I guarantee you that carbamazepine was causing my apnea problems. It also caused two other adverse reactions that are not listed as side effects. Now that I think about it, your entire comment screams pharmaceutical marketing to me. [1] https://vaers.hhs.gov/ https://vaers.hhs.gov/ [2] https://www.mayo.edu/research/faculty/poland-gregory-a-m-d/bio-00078220 https://www.mayo.edu/research/faculty/poland-gregory-a-m-d/b... edit: mRNA
m463 4y ago
I followed your route. Got the machine, hated it, didn't accept it. I ended up getting a "boil-and-bite" mouthguard thing that kept my lower jaw from slipping backwards when I sleep. That helped for about 6 months, but eventually I would wake up throwing up in my mouth. What happens is that you fall asleep, your throat collapses, you go to take a breath and since you can't bring in air through your mouth, instead you try to bring the stomach acid from your stomach up into your lungs. eventually went through the hassle of getting a machine, found the nasal pillows mask was *much* better than the default mask, and have been good.

by clsec 4y ago

rco8786 4y ago

This seems to jive exactly with what OP was saying. In that they diagnose you with apnea, throw a CPAP machine at you, and then do no follow up. I’m curious what part of this you are saying is not aligning with OP?

clsec 4y ago
I'm not fat. I was immediately diagnosed and rushed to a sleep doctor.

wnolens 4y ago

I had the same experience. Sleep study was a complete joke - I slept in a creepy hotel like room in a clinic for maybe 3h total. Uncomfortable and totally different sleep then at home. AHI of 5, given CPAP with no follow up. It really felt like this sleep Doctor got paid to hand out machines. Hacked the settings, used it for 8months then quit cold turkey as a test. Felt the same. My sleep improved more from: Drastically reducing alcohol, smoking, weed. Septum correction and tonsil removal. Sleep alone in bed in complete darkness in a cool room.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

gumby 4y ago

> The other thing I learned is that Big Pharma/FDA does a horrible job of listing medication side effects. I say that because "causes sleep apnea" was not on the list of side effects for carbamazeine Having designed and run clinical trials, I think your assertion based on a single experience is unreasonable. Companies are very interested in unexpected events, particularly bad ones (called “adverse events” in the jargon). Viagra was “discovered” because of an unanticipated side effect of a drug being tested for a heart disorder. That long list of side effect warnings? The companies love that list because it reduces legal risk (and marketing risk: doctors will tell patients what to look for and/or will avoid giving it to patients at risk of effect X). While it seems plausible to me that sleep apnea could be a side effect of a drug like carbamazepine (though it’s not a benzo) it was not reported to any statistically significant extent. since you have to report all AEs, the FDA will, in some cases, zero in on one that was reported at a minor level for additional study, because someone in the review panel thought worthy of investigation due to some scientific issue in their specialty. Drug companies hate that of course, but that’s one reason why there’s a review panel rather than a single reviewer.

clsec 4y ago
While I respect your expertise in the field, I disagree. >Companies are very interested in unexpected events, particularly bad ones (called “adverse events” in the jargon). Viagra was “discovered” because of an unanticipated side effect of a drug being tested for a heart disorder. Tell that to Moderna and Pfizer. They, nor the FDA, have shown any interest in adverse events reported by both patients and doctors to VAERS [1], unless whatever hypothetical minimum number of people report it. I've had, as well as Dr. Greg Poland [2], a pretty severe adverse reaction to the mRNA vaccines but our problems remain unaddressed because not enough people have reported it, science knows little about our reaction, or it doesn't monetarily benefit anyone (liability or profit). As for the Viagra discovery, it was a monetary benefit. Scientists and researchers in the medical field need to realize everyone is different and we have different reactions to various drugs. I guarantee you that carbamazepine was causing my apnea problems. It also caused two other adverse reactions that are not listed as side effects. Now that I think about it, your entire comment screams pharmaceutical marketing to me. [1] https://vaers.hhs.gov/ https://vaers.hhs.gov/ [2] https://www.mayo.edu/research/faculty/poland-gregory-a-m-d/bio-00078220 https://www.mayo.edu/research/faculty/poland-gregory-a-m-d/b... edit: mRNA

m463 4y ago

I followed your route. Got the machine, hated it, didn't accept it. I ended up getting a "boil-and-bite" mouthguard thing that kept my lower jaw from slipping backwards when I sleep. That helped for about 6 months, but eventually I would wake up throwing up in my mouth. What happens is that you fall asleep, your throat collapses, you go to take a breath and since you can't bring in air through your mouth, instead you try to bring the stomach acid from your stomach up into your lungs. eventually went through the hassle of getting a machine, found the nasal pillows mask was *much* better than the default mask, and have been good.