4 ms·

He addresses the size of vehicle issue and explains how station wagons or vans are more practical than SUVs for most families. Perhaps your situation is differe

He addresses the size of vehicle issue and explains how station wagons or vans are more practical than SUVs for most families. Perhaps your situation is different, but I felt he made a compelling case.

andreygrehov 4y ago
I'm in the middle of the video right now, but honestly, I absolutely hate the look of station wagons. The author makes a lot of claims that I do not share (not all of them though). For example, I do find G63 a cool looking car. On the other hand, pick up trucks are ugly as hell. But for some people they are not. People are different and they prefer different things. That's what makes our lives interesting and varied. It feels like the author wants to fix the problem by just saying "Hey people, don't buy SUVs. Hey corporations, don't manufacture SUVs", whereas a more strategic and "backward" approach is needed.
- acjacobson 4y ago
  > People are different and they prefer different things. That's what makes our lives interesting and varied. Agree, however, I think the a key point of the video is about how we balance our own experience vs. that of the community we live in. SUVs and light trucks have a cost and it's fair to question if that cost is worth it. He shed light in areas where I wasn't so familiar such as blind spots and child fatalities. > It feels like the author wants to fix the problem by just saying "Hey people, don't buy SUVs. Hey corporations, don't manufacture SUVs", whereas a more strategic and "backward" approach is needed. I thought his main argument was that people respond to incentives. That's why 40 years ago the Ford Escort was so popular vs. the F150 today. These incentives are driven by government regulation. He acknowledges that it is rational to buy an SUV when everyone has one because it's game theory. The way out is for society to regulate trucks more fairly according to their broader costs. There are reasons we need trucks and we should have trucks, but perhaps we shouldn't incentivize that to be the primary vehicle for everyone.
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    > SUVs and light trucks have a cost and it's fair to question if that cost is worth it Yep, it's worth it. Question answered. for me at least.
- WkndTriathlete 4y ago
  > but honestly, I absolutely hate the look of station wagons. Are you sure about that? Perhaps it's the $billions that US automotive manufacturers have spent to make you _think_ that. Or the peer pressure from having a vehicle that "stands out" from all of the SUVs on the road? I'm not trolling here, I'm genuinely asking those questions.
  - andreygrehov 4y ago
    > Are you sure about that? Perhaps it's the $billions that US automotive manufacturers have spent to make you _think_ that. It's hard to answer that question. How do I know? My brain just tells me: "This car is ugly af, don't ever get one". My guess is that these cars are convenient, but I would never want to own one.
ascagnel_ 4y ago
For me, it wasn’t an option, even though a wagon was my first choice. I don’t live near a shop that services Subarus (or someone that sells them), so the Outback was not an option. In terms of what was in inventory at the dealers I visited, the smallest things you could get were either sports cars or crossovers —- if manufacturers were making station wagons, the dealers weren’t stocking them.
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  Buy some spanners, watch some YouTube, learn how to fix it yourself. You'd save a lot of money.
sgerenser 4y ago
Van vs. SUV seems like a distinction without a difference, at least as far as “crossover” SUVs are concerned, which are by far the best selling style in the US. If anything, most crossovers are probably smaller, nimbler, and get better gas mileage than the typical minivan. And for the most part, stations wagons don’t exist anymore in America.* * The Subaru Outback is now essentially a crossover SUV. I guess you might still be able to buy the wagon version of one model of Audi?
- Symbiote 4y ago
  He's in Europe, so by "van" he means the vehicle at the top of [1], which is by far the first choice for most people who need to carry significant tools or equipment for their job. The second choice is an ordinary station wagon / estate car with the rear windows optionally replaced by metal panels. (Possibly more secure, in some countries also less vehicle tax.) These usually have something like "Network installer" or some sort of engineer written on the side -- some tools, but not so bulky and probably further to drive between jobs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    I had a van in the past, they are awesome. Lots of space, stuff stays dry, great handling if you're in a model that sits you over the front wheels. You'd want decent bull bars for frontal impact protection tho.
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      Bull bars defeat the whole pedestrian safety benefit. The EU and UK have strict limits on what's allowed, the type you see in Australia and the USA are banned. It's frustrating that the first website I find selling something similar lists the main benefit of bull bars as "styling". I fully support the people who vandalize vehicles with bull bars parked in urban areas. https://www.truckman.co.uk/blog/post/are-bull-bars-legal https://www.truckman.co.uk/blog/post/are-bull-bars-legal
mikrotikker 4y ago
Lots of vans are the same size as SUVs ... So only certain size vans are allowed? What is the cutoff?

andreygrehov 4y ago

I'm in the middle of the video right now, but honestly, I absolutely hate the look of station wagons. The author makes a lot of claims that I do not share (not all of them though). For example, I do find G63 a cool looking car. On the other hand, pick up trucks are ugly as hell. But for some people they are not. People are different and they prefer different things. That's what makes our lives interesting and varied. It feels like the author wants to fix the problem by just saying "Hey people, don't buy SUVs. Hey corporations, don't manufacture SUVs", whereas a more strategic and "backward" approach is needed.

acjacobson 4y ago
> People are different and they prefer different things. That's what makes our lives interesting and varied. Agree, however, I think the a key point of the video is about how we balance our own experience vs. that of the community we live in. SUVs and light trucks have a cost and it's fair to question if that cost is worth it. He shed light in areas where I wasn't so familiar such as blind spots and child fatalities. > It feels like the author wants to fix the problem by just saying "Hey people, don't buy SUVs. Hey corporations, don't manufacture SUVs", whereas a more strategic and "backward" approach is needed. I thought his main argument was that people respond to incentives. That's why 40 years ago the Ford Escort was so popular vs. the F150 today. These incentives are driven by government regulation. He acknowledges that it is rational to buy an SUV when everyone has one because it's game theory. The way out is for society to regulate trucks more fairly according to their broader costs. There are reasons we need trucks and we should have trucks, but perhaps we shouldn't incentivize that to be the primary vehicle for everyone.
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  > SUVs and light trucks have a cost and it's fair to question if that cost is worth it Yep, it's worth it. Question answered. for me at least.
WkndTriathlete 4y ago
> but honestly, I absolutely hate the look of station wagons. Are you sure about that? Perhaps it's the $billions that US automotive manufacturers have spent to make you _think_ that. Or the peer pressure from having a vehicle that "stands out" from all of the SUVs on the road? I'm not trolling here, I'm genuinely asking those questions.
- andreygrehov 4y ago
  > Are you sure about that? Perhaps it's the $billions that US automotive manufacturers have spent to make you _think_ that. It's hard to answer that question. How do I know? My brain just tells me: "This car is ugly af, don't ever get one". My guess is that these cars are convenient, but I would never want to own one.

ascagnel_ 4y ago

For me, it wasn’t an option, even though a wagon was my first choice. I don’t live near a shop that services Subarus (or someone that sells them), so the Outback was not an option. In terms of what was in inventory at the dealers I visited, the smallest things you could get were either sports cars or crossovers —- if manufacturers were making station wagons, the dealers weren’t stocking them.

mikrotikker 4y ago
Buy some spanners, watch some YouTube, learn how to fix it yourself. You'd save a lot of money.

sgerenser 4y ago

Van vs. SUV seems like a distinction without a difference, at least as far as “crossover” SUVs are concerned, which are by far the best selling style in the US. If anything, most crossovers are probably smaller, nimbler, and get better gas mileage than the typical minivan. And for the most part, stations wagons don’t exist anymore in America.* * The Subaru Outback is now essentially a crossover SUV. I guess you might still be able to buy the wagon version of one model of Audi?

Symbiote 4y ago
He's in Europe, so by "van" he means the vehicle at the top of [1], which is by far the first choice for most people who need to carry significant tools or equipment for their job. The second choice is an ordinary station wagon / estate car with the rear windows optionally replaced by metal panels. (Possibly more secure, in some countries also less vehicle tax.) These usually have something like "Network installer" or some sort of engineer written on the side -- some tools, but not so bulky and probably further to drive between jobs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  I had a van in the past, they are awesome. Lots of space, stuff stays dry, great handling if you're in a model that sits you over the front wheels. You'd want decent bull bars for frontal impact protection tho.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    Bull bars defeat the whole pedestrian safety benefit. The EU and UK have strict limits on what's allowed, the type you see in Australia and the USA are banned. It's frustrating that the first website I find selling something similar lists the main benefit of bull bars as "styling". I fully support the people who vandalize vehicles with bull bars parked in urban areas. https://www.truckman.co.uk/blog/post/are-bull-bars-legal https://www.truckman.co.uk/blog/post/are-bull-bars-legal

mikrotikker 4y ago

Lots of vans are the same size as SUVs ... So only certain size vans are allowed? What is the cutoff?