4 ms·

Link between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota is confirmed (2020)

58 points by gardenfelder 4y ago

gainofunc 4y ago
[flagged]
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  They're already a suspect.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  I always thought of autism as a remnant of our past as primates An example with orangutans https://intertheory.org/postmodern-autism.htm https://intertheory.org/postmodern-autism.htm
LorenPechtel 4y ago
I'm not at all surprised. Bacteria can produce quite a variety of compounds, the idea that some gut bacteria could produce harmful compounds seems pretty obvious.
Jerry2 4y ago
This article is very short on details. >"Indeed, high blood levels of lipopolysaccharides and certain short-chain fatty acids (acetate and valerate) were associated with both large amyloid deposits in the brain. Any indications which bacteria produces these amyloids?
- blakesterz 4y ago
  That was my question to... This discovery paves the way for potentially highly innovative protective strategies -- through the administration of a bacterial cocktail, for example, or of pre-biotics to feed the "good" bacteria in our intestine. Do we know what GOOD bacteria are or what diet to follow to get them where we want them? Do those same GOOD bacteria help with other things like heart disease?
  - CommanderData 4y ago
    I did some reading on 'good bacteria' for bone health and my take away was it can depend person to person. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a one sized fits all here. Probably having a big diverse population is better than shooting yourself with a few strains, as we get older we have less diversity of gut bacteria and interesting the younger have the opposite. I'm unsure how? we're generally consuming the same foods, if not better quality comparatively to younger people?
    - srcreigh 4y ago
      Antibiotics, poor diet over time. I wonder if alcohol has any effect too.
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      Older people do drop foods and change diet in response to other things that change with age, like allergies, dentition, digestion, blood pressure or diabetes. Old people aren't just young people with years you accumulate stuff and change your life in response. I heavily doubt that's the main reason for this difference, but old people diets are a healthcare trope for a reason.
- tomohelix 4y ago
  I doubt there is a concrete answer. Many bacteria produce amyloids as a normal part of their body. Amyloids are just one specific type of protein fold stacking on each other, and it is so, so common. Same thing with SCFAs, they are normally part of the metabolic cycle of many bacteria. Tracking down one of them is nearly impossible from something as complex as the gut microbiome.
chemmail 4y ago
What they don't tell you is that you cannot just ingest prebiotics and expect it to do anything. You need to do fecal transplant to really have an effect.
- moshun 4y ago
  A lot more fun too
  - recuter 4y ago
    Thats actually pronounced Analgesic - sir, the pills go in your mouth. These other pills, that is a suppository. Best not mix them up.
- PaulKeeble 4y ago
  Or potentially significant diet adjustments. Having tried to fix my microbiome I have found probiotics useless but the use of prebiotic fibres to promote species does work slowly.
- Llamamoe 4y ago
  To be clear: The human microbiome contains hundreds of strains of bacteria, often in an established ecosystem. An FMT introduces hundreds of microbes, usually shifting the entire microviome around. Probiotics aren't incapable of changing the microbiome, it's just that usually they contain only several strains, usually sourced from food or animals, and not humans, in relatively small amounts, and aren't guaranteed to make lasting changes to the microbiome. But they can. If they're the best you can get, they can be worth trying.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  Or, something to disrupt the existing biofilms. N-acetylcysteine works for this purpose.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tleish 4y ago
This was written November 13, 2020. At that time, the majority of the community believed that amyloid plaques caused Alzheimers from a paper in 2006. Since the paper in 2006 drug companies that spent billions of dollars in a race for a drug to decrease amyloid plaques to slow down or prevent Alzheimer's. In the trials last year, they found that while the drugs did decrease amyloid plaques, they did not impact Alzheimer's symptoms. see: Evidence Mounts for Alternate Origins of Alzheimer’s Disease Plaques https://nyulangone.org/news/evidence-mounts-alternate-origins-alzheimers-disease-plaques https://nyulangone.org/news/evidence-mounts-alternate-origin... This led to the discovery that some of the data in the 2006 study was faked. see: Faked Beta-Amyloid Data. What Does It Mean? https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/faked-beta-amyloid-data-what-does-it-mean https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/faked-beta-amyloid... The latest theory is now on beta-amyloid proteins. see: Decreased proteins, not amyloid plaques, tied to Alzheimer's disease https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/10/221004151217.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/10/221004151217.h... If the new theory of beta-amyloid proteins linked to Alzheimer's proves to be true then someone should look into if there's a link between gut and beta-amyloid proteins.
- vaxman 4y ago
  We can still infer dementia from the presence of excessive amyloid plaque even if removing the excessive amyloid plaque doesn’t resolve the dementia.
- zosima 4y ago
  No, the fact that amyloid-beta or at least its precursor protein APP is causative in Alzheimer's disease is based on very solid science, with a huge amount of genetic evidence behind it. Lecanemab an antibody that binds to amyloid-beta, is disease-modifying and slows down cognitive deterioration. The paper from 2006 carried no significance for any of this and it had only minor impact on Alzheimer's disease research. There has been discussion to whether the plaques of amyloid-beta protein are disease-causing or not. I, as probably most others, believe the plaques as such are non-causative, and that the damage from amyloid-beta happens when amyloid-beta is in a soluble state.
vaxman 4y ago
My “street smarts” tell me this is correct. Social isolation combined with filling their guts with someone’s industrial science experiment on a bun ..day in and day out for decades, McDonalds in the morning seems like it is often the last daily grind for America’s army of disenfranchised single retired men (before the cemeteries and dementia wards take them). Is it causal or correlation? This study makes me think they’re eating themselves into insanity which probably helps keep them in that routine before wiping them out completely. It’s so fucking evil.

58 points by gardenfelder 4y ago

gainofunc 4y ago

[flagged]

LorenPechtel 4y ago
They're already a suspect.
Kukumber 4y ago
I always thought of autism as a remnant of our past as primates An example with orangutans https://intertheory.org/postmodern-autism.htm https://intertheory.org/postmodern-autism.htm

LorenPechtel 4y ago

I'm not at all surprised. Bacteria can produce quite a variety of compounds, the idea that some gut bacteria could produce harmful compounds seems pretty obvious.

Jerry2 4y ago

This article is very short on details. >"Indeed, high blood levels of lipopolysaccharides and certain short-chain fatty acids (acetate and valerate) were associated with both large amyloid deposits in the brain. Any indications which bacteria produces these amyloids?

blakesterz 4y ago
That was my question to... This discovery paves the way for potentially highly innovative protective strategies -- through the administration of a bacterial cocktail, for example, or of pre-biotics to feed the "good" bacteria in our intestine. Do we know what GOOD bacteria are or what diet to follow to get them where we want them? Do those same GOOD bacteria help with other things like heart disease?
- CommanderData 4y ago
  I did some reading on 'good bacteria' for bone health and my take away was it can depend person to person. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a one sized fits all here. Probably having a big diverse population is better than shooting yourself with a few strains, as we get older we have less diversity of gut bacteria and interesting the younger have the opposite. I'm unsure how? we're generally consuming the same foods, if not better quality comparatively to younger people?
  - srcreigh 4y ago
    Antibiotics, poor diet over time. I wonder if alcohol has any effect too.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Older people do drop foods and change diet in response to other things that change with age, like allergies, dentition, digestion, blood pressure or diabetes. Old people aren't just young people with years you accumulate stuff and change your life in response. I heavily doubt that's the main reason for this difference, but old people diets are a healthcare trope for a reason.
tomohelix 4y ago
I doubt there is a concrete answer. Many bacteria produce amyloids as a normal part of their body. Amyloids are just one specific type of protein fold stacking on each other, and it is so, so common. Same thing with SCFAs, they are normally part of the metabolic cycle of many bacteria. Tracking down one of them is nearly impossible from something as complex as the gut microbiome.

chemmail 4y ago

What they don't tell you is that you cannot just ingest prebiotics and expect it to do anything. You need to do fecal transplant to really have an effect.

moshun 4y ago
A lot more fun too
- recuter 4y ago
  Thats actually pronounced Analgesic - sir, the pills go in your mouth. These other pills, that is a suppository. Best not mix them up.
PaulKeeble 4y ago
Or potentially significant diet adjustments. Having tried to fix my microbiome I have found probiotics useless but the use of prebiotic fibres to promote species does work slowly.
Llamamoe 4y ago
To be clear: The human microbiome contains hundreds of strains of bacteria, often in an established ecosystem. An FMT introduces hundreds of microbes, usually shifting the entire microviome around. Probiotics aren't incapable of changing the microbiome, it's just that usually they contain only several strains, usually sourced from food or animals, and not humans, in relatively small amounts, and aren't guaranteed to make lasting changes to the microbiome. But they can. If they're the best you can get, they can be worth trying.
eurasiantiger 4y ago
Or, something to disrupt the existing biofilms. N-acetylcysteine works for this purpose.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tleish 4y ago

This was written November 13, 2020. At that time, the majority of the community believed that amyloid plaques caused Alzheimers from a paper in 2006. Since the paper in 2006 drug companies that spent billions of dollars in a race for a drug to decrease amyloid plaques to slow down or prevent Alzheimer's. In the trials last year, they found that while the drugs did decrease amyloid plaques, they did not impact Alzheimer's symptoms. see: Evidence Mounts for Alternate Origins of Alzheimer’s Disease Plaques https://nyulangone.org/news/evidence-mounts-alternate-origins-alzheimers-disease-plaques https://nyulangone.org/news/evidence-mounts-alternate-origin... This led to the discovery that some of the data in the 2006 study was faked. see: Faked Beta-Amyloid Data. What Does It Mean? https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/faked-beta-amyloid-data-what-does-it-mean https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/faked-beta-amyloid... The latest theory is now on beta-amyloid proteins. see: Decreased proteins, not amyloid plaques, tied to Alzheimer's disease https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/10/221004151217.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/10/221004151217.h... If the new theory of beta-amyloid proteins linked to Alzheimer's proves to be true then someone should look into if there's a link between gut and beta-amyloid proteins.

vaxman 4y ago
We can still infer dementia from the presence of excessive amyloid plaque even if removing the excessive amyloid plaque doesn’t resolve the dementia.
zosima 4y ago
No, the fact that amyloid-beta or at least its precursor protein APP is causative in Alzheimer's disease is based on very solid science, with a huge amount of genetic evidence behind it. Lecanemab an antibody that binds to amyloid-beta, is disease-modifying and slows down cognitive deterioration. The paper from 2006 carried no significance for any of this and it had only minor impact on Alzheimer's disease research. There has been discussion to whether the plaques of amyloid-beta protein are disease-causing or not. I, as probably most others, believe the plaques as such are non-causative, and that the damage from amyloid-beta happens when amyloid-beta is in a soluble state.

vaxman 4y ago

My “street smarts” tell me this is correct. Social isolation combined with filling their guts with someone’s industrial science experiment on a bun ..day in and day out for decades, McDonalds in the morning seems like it is often the last daily grind for America’s army of disenfranchised single retired men (before the cemeteries and dementia wards take them). Is it causal or correlation? This study makes me think they’re eating themselves into insanity which probably helps keep them in that routine before wiping them out completely. It’s so fucking evil.