4 ms·

Personally I've never gotten anything out of "talking to someone." I'm not saying that people shouldn't do it, if it works for them. I just can't think of a sin

Personally I've never gotten anything out of "talking to someone." I'm not saying that people shouldn't do it, if it works for them. I just can't think of a single time in my life where I had a problem and I "talked about it" to a friend or colleague (let alone therapist) and then felt better about it afterwards. I guess I'm just too "action oriented." When I was younger I had an issue with anger management. Today I suspect I might be on the high functioning autism spectrum, but we didn't know back then what we do today. Obviously if I'm right about that, then it also explains why "talking to people" doesn't work for me. But I digress. In my youth it was common for people to say to me "You need to vent before things blow up, get a punching bag or something." I used to buy into this idea that if you keep things bottled up eventually they will build and you will explode. That is, until someone pointed out that if your method of dealing with anger is to punch something, you are training yourself to respond to anger with violence. When I started to question the "venting" hypothesis I found healthier and more productive (for me) ways of dealing with meltdowns and ruminations. I think this idea can apply to "speaking with someone" as well. Again, I'm not saying that if there is a crises people shouldn't seek help. Just that speaking to someone, as far as I can tell, ought to have a purpose other than "I just need to talk." What does that mean, to "need" to talk? What are you looking to get out of the conversation? Do you need advice because you don't know what to do? Do you feel alone and isolated and need evidence that you are not? Anyway these are just my personal thoughts and ramblings ... always do what works best for you and if there's an emergency don't consider the random ramblings of some strange idiot on an Internet forum.

thenerdhead 4y ago
The bottom line is that you need a way to get the repressed emotions out. Sounds like you have a way that works for you. This article is basically telling you to not seek help because you have a way of dealing with your problems today.
babelfish 4y ago
If you're still having anger management issues (or depression, anxiety, whatever) - you should ask those questions to a therapist, who can help you find the best answers for you. Everyone needs something different.
roenxi 4y ago
> In my youth it was common for people to say to me "You need to vent before things blow up, get a punching bag or something." This advice is very questionable, it subtly assumes that you are causing your own problems. It sounds really obvious, but if you have an actual problem neither venting nor punching go any way towards making the situation better. Venting is only a legitimate strategy to me when it makes you feel really good. Otherwise it is more or less useless. A better approach is identify the problem -> test if the identification was correct -> have a good faith go at some alternative theories anyway just in case cognitive biases are in play and you can shake them -> attempt to resolve the problem. Talking to someone in the 3rd step, if you trust their judgement, is valuable.
jstarfish 4y ago
> What does that mean, to "need" to talk? What are you looking to get out of the conversation? Do you need advice because you don't know what to do? Do you feel alone and isolated and need evidence that you are not? I had the exact same experience as you, and have zero faith in the institution of psychology, but also had a recent revelation that led me to appreciate the "talk about it" angle. In cases of things like perceived injustice, sometimes you just need some validation. Using CSA as an example, something may feel very wrong, but all other signs (and even perhaps the people around you) suggest that everything is as it should be. It creates a crippling cognitive dissonance. Doesn't help that everyone and their dog knows what gaslighting is these days-- and are generous in dispensing it. You can't punch your way out of that situation; it's unhelpful in every way. The people around you may be criminally complicit and actually colluding against you. You can't bottle it up either; it'll eat away at you and manifest in some nasty ways later. Short of faking your own death and moving to Thailand, the only way out of that fog is to solicit a second opinion from an outside, objective source so you can address it. It's less about advice and more about closure. You feel like something is wrong, and you want to be told (a) you're crazy and here's a treatment plan, or (b) you were right all along and by-the-way-I-called-CPS. (Of course, the kids are gaming this with therapists in telling only the favorable half of the story; you get out of therapy what you put into it. Bullshit in, bullshit out.)
Benjammer 4y ago
There are many types of therapy (CBT, DBT, etc.) where the focus is absolutely not on "just talking" or "just letting it out." Therapy can give you a structured toolbox of exactly those "healthy ways" to deal with emotions and emotional stress, and you can work them out and learn how to put them into practice, with an expert alongside you helping and coaching. It is a catalyst to learning those healthy mindset techniques instead of spending time yourself figuring everything out heuristically. (good) Therapists are emotional intelligence coaches, they are NOT "shoulders to cry on," quite the opposite in fact. I worked with a therapist doing CBT for a while, and have recently been working with a career coach. Neither of them ever let me "ramble" or "just let it out" with anything. They stop me and force me to unpack and separate the emotions from the thoughts from the reactions, and logically think through what is happening and how I can react in a more healthy way.
- foogazi 4y ago
  +1 CBT my experience has been that it’s very “action” oriented, no BS or talking about the past. Feelings and emotions have to be grounded in reality, then you act.
recursivecaveat 4y ago
The whole 'venting' steam engine model has always seemed to me in defiance of common sense and (as far as I know) the science. Gardeners, monks, or crafts workers are not stereotypically boiling with rage underneath. On the other hand people with everyday opportunities to seriously vent like violent criminals or professional athletes are typically among the most explosive personalities. My philosophy is you are what you eat: calm, healthy environments and emotional states breed themselves.
makmanalp 4y ago
> I think this idea can apply to "speaking with someone" as well. Again, I'm not saying that if there is a crises people shouldn't seek help. Just that speaking to someone, as far as I can tell, ought to have a purpose other than "I just need to talk." What does that mean, to "need" to talk? What are you looking to get out of the conversation? Do you need advice because you don't know what to do? Do you feel alone and isolated and need evidence that you are not? I think you nearly lead yourself to the answer here - it can and should have a goal of learning and self improvement. Personally, what I thought was most helpful about therapy was getting a "second opinion" on the things that I think and the way I think about them. While I used to think of myself as a highly rational, evidence based, logical etc etc person, I discovered over time via a helpful outsider that in fact I was subject to biases and disordered thinking in the same way that most people are, all the while thinking that I was being perfectly reasonable. Especially when it came to things that I had bad experiences with in the past, that I was afraid of and / or was trying to avoid unpleasantness around. I found that I could rationalize (meaning: reverse engineer seemingly reasonable reasons for) my worry about things that hadn't yet happened and were unlikely to happen, often involving complicated lines of reasoning which hid various fallacies. I figured out why I was worried about those things in the first place (which funnily enough wasn't clear to me at the time), and how experiences bias thought and perception of likelihood. All this involved eating a lot of humble pie, and resulted in a greater understanding of people around me and why they behave they way they do too. The second most helpful thing was learning to cope. There's probably stuff that's out of your control (e.g. stuff that happened in the past that's still affecting you, or just plain old facts of life) that you can't change. It's not that therapy magically fixes your problems per se, but perhaps you're making it worse for yourself: e.g. shame, embarrassment, self-blame, over-worry. At the risk of sounding woo-woo, Buddhists talk about the "second arrow" which is the unnecessary suffering you inflict upon yourself on top of the suffering that you already have to live through - that rings true for me. Like any skill, you practice and learn through failure how to apply these things. I still worry occasionally, but I can now much more easily take a step back, evaluate, separate out what I can do and can't do about it, formulate a plan, ask for help, etc instead of turning into a nervous wreck who cannot do a thing. I now mostly worry the correct amount, which is the small amount that pushes me to do something productive about it :-) I imagine this all sounds very abstruse if you don't have this problem and already worry the correct amount, but I'm writing this so that others in a similar situation and have an inkling that something's off (e.g. "why am I always so angry"), but haven't yet discovered what's going on can benefit. If anyone has questions about this, feel free to reply and we can chat privately.
adammarples 4y ago
As far as I'm aware, one of the main benefits of talking to someone is that when you hear your own words through your ears, rather than internally, different parts of the brain get a chance to process them, you get another point of view literally. Secondly, yes - another person can hear you who is educated enough and will be able to challenge your beliefs which are likely invisible and self limiting.

thenerdhead 4y ago

The bottom line is that you need a way to get the repressed emotions out. Sounds like you have a way that works for you. This article is basically telling you to not seek help because you have a way of dealing with your problems today.

babelfish 4y ago

If you're still having anger management issues (or depression, anxiety, whatever) - you should ask those questions to a therapist, who can help you find the best answers for you. Everyone needs something different.

roenxi 4y ago

> In my youth it was common for people to say to me "You need to vent before things blow up, get a punching bag or something." This advice is very questionable, it subtly assumes that you are causing your own problems. It sounds really obvious, but if you have an actual problem neither venting nor punching go any way towards making the situation better. Venting is only a legitimate strategy to me when it makes you feel really good. Otherwise it is more or less useless. A better approach is identify the problem -> test if the identification was correct -> have a good faith go at some alternative theories anyway just in case cognitive biases are in play and you can shake them -> attempt to resolve the problem. Talking to someone in the 3rd step, if you trust their judgement, is valuable.

jstarfish 4y ago

> What does that mean, to "need" to talk? What are you looking to get out of the conversation? Do you need advice because you don't know what to do? Do you feel alone and isolated and need evidence that you are not? I had the exact same experience as you, and have zero faith in the institution of psychology, but also had a recent revelation that led me to appreciate the "talk about it" angle. In cases of things like perceived injustice, sometimes you just need some validation. Using CSA as an example, something may feel very wrong, but all other signs (and even perhaps the people around you) suggest that everything is as it should be. It creates a crippling cognitive dissonance. Doesn't help that everyone and their dog knows what gaslighting is these days-- and are generous in dispensing it. You can't punch your way out of that situation; it's unhelpful in every way. The people around you may be criminally complicit and actually colluding against you. You can't bottle it up either; it'll eat away at you and manifest in some nasty ways later. Short of faking your own death and moving to Thailand, the only way out of that fog is to solicit a second opinion from an outside, objective source so you can address it. It's less about advice and more about closure. You feel like something is wrong, and you want to be told (a) you're crazy and here's a treatment plan, or (b) you were right all along and by-the-way-I-called-CPS. (Of course, the kids are gaming this with therapists in telling only the favorable half of the story; you get out of therapy what you put into it. Bullshit in, bullshit out.)

Benjammer 4y ago

There are many types of therapy (CBT, DBT, etc.) where the focus is absolutely not on "just talking" or "just letting it out." Therapy can give you a structured toolbox of exactly those "healthy ways" to deal with emotions and emotional stress, and you can work them out and learn how to put them into practice, with an expert alongside you helping and coaching. It is a catalyst to learning those healthy mindset techniques instead of spending time yourself figuring everything out heuristically. (good) Therapists are emotional intelligence coaches, they are NOT "shoulders to cry on," quite the opposite in fact. I worked with a therapist doing CBT for a while, and have recently been working with a career coach. Neither of them ever let me "ramble" or "just let it out" with anything. They stop me and force me to unpack and separate the emotions from the thoughts from the reactions, and logically think through what is happening and how I can react in a more healthy way.

foogazi 4y ago
+1 CBT my experience has been that it’s very “action” oriented, no BS or talking about the past. Feelings and emotions have to be grounded in reality, then you act.

recursivecaveat 4y ago

The whole 'venting' steam engine model has always seemed to me in defiance of common sense and (as far as I know) the science. Gardeners, monks, or crafts workers are not stereotypically boiling with rage underneath. On the other hand people with everyday opportunities to seriously vent like violent criminals or professional athletes are typically among the most explosive personalities. My philosophy is you are what you eat: calm, healthy environments and emotional states breed themselves.

makmanalp 4y ago

> I think this idea can apply to "speaking with someone" as well. Again, I'm not saying that if there is a crises people shouldn't seek help. Just that speaking to someone, as far as I can tell, ought to have a purpose other than "I just need to talk." What does that mean, to "need" to talk? What are you looking to get out of the conversation? Do you need advice because you don't know what to do? Do you feel alone and isolated and need evidence that you are not? I think you nearly lead yourself to the answer here - it can and should have a goal of learning and self improvement. Personally, what I thought was most helpful about therapy was getting a "second opinion" on the things that I think and the way I think about them. While I used to think of myself as a highly rational, evidence based, logical etc etc person, I discovered over time via a helpful outsider that in fact I was subject to biases and disordered thinking in the same way that most people are, all the while thinking that I was being perfectly reasonable. Especially when it came to things that I had bad experiences with in the past, that I was afraid of and / or was trying to avoid unpleasantness around. I found that I could rationalize (meaning: reverse engineer seemingly reasonable reasons for) my worry about things that hadn't yet happened and were unlikely to happen, often involving complicated lines of reasoning which hid various fallacies. I figured out why I was worried about those things in the first place (which funnily enough wasn't clear to me at the time), and how experiences bias thought and perception of likelihood. All this involved eating a lot of humble pie, and resulted in a greater understanding of people around me and why they behave they way they do too. The second most helpful thing was learning to cope. There's probably stuff that's out of your control (e.g. stuff that happened in the past that's still affecting you, or just plain old facts of life) that you can't change. It's not that therapy magically fixes your problems per se, but perhaps you're making it worse for yourself: e.g. shame, embarrassment, self-blame, over-worry. At the risk of sounding woo-woo, Buddhists talk about the "second arrow" which is the unnecessary suffering you inflict upon yourself on top of the suffering that you already have to live through - that rings true for me. Like any skill, you practice and learn through failure how to apply these things. I still worry occasionally, but I can now much more easily take a step back, evaluate, separate out what I can do and can't do about it, formulate a plan, ask for help, etc instead of turning into a nervous wreck who cannot do a thing. I now mostly worry the correct amount, which is the small amount that pushes me to do something productive about it :-) I imagine this all sounds very abstruse if you don't have this problem and already worry the correct amount, but I'm writing this so that others in a similar situation and have an inkling that something's off (e.g. "why am I always so angry"), but haven't yet discovered what's going on can benefit. If anyone has questions about this, feel free to reply and we can chat privately.

adammarples 4y ago

As far as I'm aware, one of the main benefits of talking to someone is that when you hear your own words through your ears, rather than internally, different parts of the brain get a chance to process them, you get another point of view literally. Secondly, yes - another person can hear you who is educated enough and will be able to challenge your beliefs which are likely invisible and self limiting.