3 ms·

I don't think it's crazy to see gig workers as contractors, I do think it's crazy how businesses have been able to abuse contractor/part-time classifications to

I don't think it's crazy to see gig workers as contractors, I do think it's crazy how businesses have been able to abuse contractor/part-time classifications to dodge a bunch of labor-rights requirements. That's the real issue, and it goes way beyond Uber and Lyft and the like.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
The real issue is the government using businesses as a conduit for things like tax advantaged retirement and health insurance subsidies.
- brundolf 4y ago
  That's a key part of it, yes. The fact that basic pillars of life are tied to full-time employment means that people who aren't full-time employees aren't fully-benefitting members of society. And because these things cost the business money, it's incentivized to push as many people out of the benefitting category as possible
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    It also penalizes anyone who wants to operate a small business or be their own boss. It is basically impossible to set up a tax advantaged retirement plan if you have a successful family business. It is obscene that if I work for a huge company I can dump 25k per year free tax in a 401k, but if just work for myself I am s** out of luck We really need to sever all the ties between employment and benefits. Get paid for your work and buy the benefits you want.
scarface74 4y ago
What are these “labor rights”?
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  If you work in an office, you can probably find a poster with a bunch of them on it, somewhere. Break room or something like that, usually. You'll be able to find it because one of the legal obligations employers have to employees is to post that information. Not an exhaustive accounting, but it'll be a good introduction. If your post was intended to be sarcastic or otherwise wasn't serious, sorry for missing your meaning.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    - minimum wage - do Uber drivers not make 7.25/hour? - overtime - if it is enforced , all Uber has to do is not allow someone to work over 8 hours a day. Does that help Uber drivers? - unpaid leave - if Uber drivers need to take a break and be guaranteed a “job” at Uber that’s already the case. - child labor - you can’t drive Uber if you are underage - farm workers - not applicable. Did I miss anything?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - brundolf 4y ago
      Healthcare: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35202125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35202125 "Labor rights" may or may not be the right term for that piece, but regardless
      - scarface74 4y ago
        If the government thinks that health care should be a “universal right” - and I agree - then the government should provide health care to all of its citizens like every other civilized country in the world.
    - paxys 4y ago
      California minimum wage is $15.50/hr, and in San Francisco it is $17/hr. There is no guarantee that rideshare drivers make anything close to that much while they are on the job. When you factor in vehicle depreciation, fuel, payroll taxes, health and auto insurance and all other costs associated with the job (that the employer doesn't have to pay because you are an independent contractor), a lot of them are actually losing money.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

The real issue is the government using businesses as a conduit for things like tax advantaged retirement and health insurance subsidies.

brundolf 4y ago
That's a key part of it, yes. The fact that basic pillars of life are tied to full-time employment means that people who aren't full-time employees aren't fully-benefitting members of society. And because these things cost the business money, it's incentivized to push as many people out of the benefitting category as possible
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  It also penalizes anyone who wants to operate a small business or be their own boss. It is basically impossible to set up a tax advantaged retirement plan if you have a successful family business. It is obscene that if I work for a huge company I can dump 25k per year free tax in a 401k, but if just work for myself I am s** out of luck We really need to sever all the ties between employment and benefits. Get paid for your work and buy the benefits you want.

scarface74 4y ago

What are these “labor rights”?

yamtaddle 4y ago
If you work in an office, you can probably find a poster with a bunch of them on it, somewhere. Break room or something like that, usually. You'll be able to find it because one of the legal obligations employers have to employees is to post that information. Not an exhaustive accounting, but it'll be a good introduction. If your post was intended to be sarcastic or otherwise wasn't serious, sorry for missing your meaning.
- scarface74 4y ago
  - minimum wage - do Uber drivers not make 7.25/hour? - overtime - if it is enforced , all Uber has to do is not allow someone to work over 8 hours a day. Does that help Uber drivers? - unpaid leave - if Uber drivers need to take a break and be guaranteed a “job” at Uber that’s already the case. - child labor - you can’t drive Uber if you are underage - farm workers - not applicable. Did I miss anything?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - brundolf 4y ago
    Healthcare: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35202125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35202125 "Labor rights" may or may not be the right term for that piece, but regardless
    - scarface74 4y ago
      If the government thinks that health care should be a “universal right” - and I agree - then the government should provide health care to all of its citizens like every other civilized country in the world.
  - paxys 4y ago
    California minimum wage is $15.50/hr, and in San Francisco it is $17/hr. There is no guarantee that rideshare drivers make anything close to that much while they are on the job. When you factor in vehicle depreciation, fuel, payroll taxes, health and auto insurance and all other costs associated with the job (that the employer doesn't have to pay because you are an independent contractor), a lot of them are actually losing money.