7 ms·

I would never speak to a therapist unless all the laws regarding mandatory reporting, red flags, FAA and firearms licensing record searches, and involuntary com

I would never speak to a therapist unless all the laws regarding mandatory reporting, red flags, FAA and firearms licensing record searches, and involuntary committal are repealed. Until then they are a huge blinking hazard that the slightest misinterpreted phrase will result in serious legal hassles.

zb1plus 4y ago
Probably better to talk to a therapist overseas virtually to avoid silly government rules. It also lets you keep a good therapist even when you move to a different territory or change insurance (as an American)
function_seven 4y ago
Likewise. And for the same reason, you should probably lie to your doctor about any drug use, past or present. Which is a terrible policy to have, as you may be given treatments or prescriptions that interact negatively. But at least you can independently research those possible effects.
- Scubabear68 4y ago
  An example of a variant on this, when my wife and I started the journey to adopt in our State (NJ), we were required to give permission to speak to our doctors, and they went through everything. I mentioned something once to my doctor about cutting down on alcohol and that became a big deal in our interviews with State workers.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    I'd be curious when adoption started becoming so much more cumbersome, and whether the outcomes for the children have been significantly better. Including taking into account that some children get left to bounce around in foster care because loving parents who want to adopt them get hit as "false positives" as baddies in the onerous screening process.
RavZterz 4y ago
Agree with you. Being committed is the same as being in jail. They take your belongings and lock you in a room with a guard making sure you don't leave. Then you stay there at their discretion. I understand the reasoning in that if you hold someone off from suicide it should subside hopefully but it's all guesswork. I keep seeing articles about a new suicide booth in Switzerland and the rate of euthanasia increasing in Canada... I understand people don't have a solution, but it feels like the experts aren't even trying. I think some good advice is to treat therapy like medicine and realize it might not solve the problem and there are real risks involved. I don't want to turn anyone away from therapy, but it isn't for me.
- 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
  > I understand people don't have a solution, but it feels like the experts aren't even trying. This is definitely the vibe I get from the mental health establishment. There's so much hot air about "awareness" and "stigma" and telling people "there is help", but that's essentially just marketing. That's not going to do much for someone who's seen a dozen therapists and tried as many medications to virtually no effect, or someone who found the "right treatment" and can hold down a job now but still feels like shit most of the time.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    I was taken involuntarily to a hospital. I was immediately presumed guilty and cursed at by nurses. Looked down upon by cops. Laughed at when I asked for a signed warrant or consent before acting. Oh yeah, I wasn't there for a mental health hold. A cop claimed there were drugs up my ass. Literally. They found nothing. Never got an apology. Just a bunch of judgemental assholes that assume if you're being evaluated for something it must be true. Even when discharged they marked "overdose" on my paperwork.... I was stone cold sober and was only there because some officer apparently thought I fit the profile of a drug smuggler. The medical workers didn't want to admit they were wrong so they just marked it as an overdose when absolutely nothing was found, including never performing a tox screen (it would have been negative). On the way out the doctor bragged about how he was monitoring closely to try and find a way to hold me longer, with the implied threat being he had hoped since whatever preconceived notion he had about me being a drug smuggler had no evidence that he could punish me instead by involuntarily committing me.
jzb 4y ago
If I knew you and you said that to me, I would consider that a huge red flag. What is it that you think you were going to say to a therapist that is going to wind up triggering any of the things you just mentioned? Therapists aren’t just running around mandatory reporting people for talking about their problems. The things that you mention are triggered when someone is at risk either the patient presents a very clear hazard to themselves or others, or a therapist learns about abuse. I’ve never heard of this happening lightly. The idea that a misinterpreted phrase is going to land you in legal trouble or involuntarily committed is simply wrong. Source: am married to a therapist and know what actually would trigger mandatory reporting. They might need some tweaking, but they absolutely shouldn’t be repealed.
- notch898a 4y ago
  It's a red flag to be worried that you could possibly be misinterpreted and that the misinterpretation (innocent or otherwise) could lead to a red flag? That is some dystopian shit.... I'm not even allowed to be a skeptic about the red flag without being flagged. I think you've proven the case as to why I wouldn't want to see a therapist.
  - jzb 4y ago
    If you have an understanding of what leads to mandatory reporting, etc., and you think something you say is going to put you in jeopardy during a therapy session, it's absolutely a red flag. Just what in the Hell do you think you're going to say to a therapist that's going to trigger a mandatory report? Is there some huge wave of people being involuntarily committed I've somehow missed? Therapists don't try to have people committed or make reports lightly. They're not going to try to take your guns away or have you committed because you use bad words or seem angry during a session. They're not going to report you or whatever for disclosing drug use, or an unusual (but consensual) fetish. They won't even report you or try to have you committed if you talk about suicide unless you meet certain criteria around likely self-harm. Saying, "man, I just don't want to live anymore" isn't going to do it. Saying "I don't want to live anymore and I have a plan to end my life in the next 24 hours" might. Even then, they're going to try really hard to guide you to voluntary actions and not involuntary ones. The mandatory reporting laws are in place for specific scenarios like imminent danger, self-harm, or child abuse. So - if you've actually looked into this at all and think "hey, something I say in therapy is going to trigger mandatory reporting" - yeah, that's a huge, enormous, red flag. As I said, I'm married to a therapist. I know pretty well what triggers these things, what the process is, etc. It is an enormous headache for a therapist to have to do any of this - and it's certainly not like they're getting paid extra for every patient they report. And it's not like they have a red button that sends the men in white coats running into the room. In normal therapy it's a multi-step process of notifications and follow-ups where a patient would have ample opportunity to raise objections, etc. If law enforcement is involved, they're not going to just cuff somebody and ask questions later unless you confess to murder in a session or something. And, maybe it's just me, but I kind of think mandatory reporting laws that kick in if someone admits to murder or imminent plans to murder someone are a good thing, not a bad one. If you're working with a therapist through a hospital or whatever, they'll have a risk management department that will be involved in these scenarios. They're not going to support mandatory reporting or involuntary committing unless they feel it's necessary. If anything, those institutions are probably going to be biased against these things because of costs. Independent therapists are going to avoid this because it's a huge hassle for them, too. Plus it's usually going to risk their relationship with that patient and possibly put them at liability if the patient decides to sue or go after them with their certifying board. (There is also risk, of course, if they clearly have a mandatory reporting situation and don't take action.)
wlll 4y ago
It sounds like you need a lawyer not a therapist.
- notch898a 4y ago
  maslow's hierarchy of useful professionals for dealing with life's traumas therapist d o c t o r l a w y e r s t r i p p e r

zb1plus 4y ago

Probably better to talk to a therapist overseas virtually to avoid silly government rules. It also lets you keep a good therapist even when you move to a different territory or change insurance (as an American)

function_seven 4y ago

Likewise. And for the same reason, you should probably lie to your doctor about any drug use, past or present. Which is a terrible policy to have, as you may be given treatments or prescriptions that interact negatively. But at least you can independently research those possible effects.

Scubabear68 4y ago
An example of a variant on this, when my wife and I started the journey to adopt in our State (NJ), we were required to give permission to speak to our doctors, and they went through everything. I mentioned something once to my doctor about cutting down on alcohol and that became a big deal in our interviews with State workers.
- notch898a 4y ago
  I'd be curious when adoption started becoming so much more cumbersome, and whether the outcomes for the children have been significantly better. Including taking into account that some children get left to bounce around in foster care because loving parents who want to adopt them get hit as "false positives" as baddies in the onerous screening process.

RavZterz 4y ago

Agree with you. Being committed is the same as being in jail. They take your belongings and lock you in a room with a guard making sure you don't leave. Then you stay there at their discretion. I understand the reasoning in that if you hold someone off from suicide it should subside hopefully but it's all guesswork. I keep seeing articles about a new suicide booth in Switzerland and the rate of euthanasia increasing in Canada... I understand people don't have a solution, but it feels like the experts aren't even trying. I think some good advice is to treat therapy like medicine and realize it might not solve the problem and there are real risks involved. I don't want to turn anyone away from therapy, but it isn't for me.

0xcde4c3db 4y ago
> I understand people don't have a solution, but it feels like the experts aren't even trying. This is definitely the vibe I get from the mental health establishment. There's so much hot air about "awareness" and "stigma" and telling people "there is help", but that's essentially just marketing. That's not going to do much for someone who's seen a dozen therapists and tried as many medications to virtually no effect, or someone who found the "right treatment" and can hold down a job now but still feels like shit most of the time.
- notch898a 4y ago
  I was taken involuntarily to a hospital. I was immediately presumed guilty and cursed at by nurses. Looked down upon by cops. Laughed at when I asked for a signed warrant or consent before acting. Oh yeah, I wasn't there for a mental health hold. A cop claimed there were drugs up my ass. Literally. They found nothing. Never got an apology. Just a bunch of judgemental assholes that assume if you're being evaluated for something it must be true. Even when discharged they marked "overdose" on my paperwork.... I was stone cold sober and was only there because some officer apparently thought I fit the profile of a drug smuggler. The medical workers didn't want to admit they were wrong so they just marked it as an overdose when absolutely nothing was found, including never performing a tox screen (it would have been negative). On the way out the doctor bragged about how he was monitoring closely to try and find a way to hold me longer, with the implied threat being he had hoped since whatever preconceived notion he had about me being a drug smuggler had no evidence that he could punish me instead by involuntarily committing me.

jzb 4y ago

If I knew you and you said that to me, I would consider that a huge red flag. What is it that you think you were going to say to a therapist that is going to wind up triggering any of the things you just mentioned? Therapists aren’t just running around mandatory reporting people for talking about their problems. The things that you mention are triggered when someone is at risk either the patient presents a very clear hazard to themselves or others, or a therapist learns about abuse. I’ve never heard of this happening lightly. The idea that a misinterpreted phrase is going to land you in legal trouble or involuntarily committed is simply wrong. Source: am married to a therapist and know what actually would trigger mandatory reporting. They might need some tweaking, but they absolutely shouldn’t be repealed.

notch898a 4y ago
It's a red flag to be worried that you could possibly be misinterpreted and that the misinterpretation (innocent or otherwise) could lead to a red flag? That is some dystopian shit.... I'm not even allowed to be a skeptic about the red flag without being flagged. I think you've proven the case as to why I wouldn't want to see a therapist.
- jzb 4y ago
  If you have an understanding of what leads to mandatory reporting, etc., and you think something you say is going to put you in jeopardy during a therapy session, it's absolutely a red flag. Just what in the Hell do you think you're going to say to a therapist that's going to trigger a mandatory report? Is there some huge wave of people being involuntarily committed I've somehow missed? Therapists don't try to have people committed or make reports lightly. They're not going to try to take your guns away or have you committed because you use bad words or seem angry during a session. They're not going to report you or whatever for disclosing drug use, or an unusual (but consensual) fetish. They won't even report you or try to have you committed if you talk about suicide unless you meet certain criteria around likely self-harm. Saying, "man, I just don't want to live anymore" isn't going to do it. Saying "I don't want to live anymore and I have a plan to end my life in the next 24 hours" might. Even then, they're going to try really hard to guide you to voluntary actions and not involuntary ones. The mandatory reporting laws are in place for specific scenarios like imminent danger, self-harm, or child abuse. So - if you've actually looked into this at all and think "hey, something I say in therapy is going to trigger mandatory reporting" - yeah, that's a huge, enormous, red flag. As I said, I'm married to a therapist. I know pretty well what triggers these things, what the process is, etc. It is an enormous headache for a therapist to have to do any of this - and it's certainly not like they're getting paid extra for every patient they report. And it's not like they have a red button that sends the men in white coats running into the room. In normal therapy it's a multi-step process of notifications and follow-ups where a patient would have ample opportunity to raise objections, etc. If law enforcement is involved, they're not going to just cuff somebody and ask questions later unless you confess to murder in a session or something. And, maybe it's just me, but I kind of think mandatory reporting laws that kick in if someone admits to murder or imminent plans to murder someone are a good thing, not a bad one. If you're working with a therapist through a hospital or whatever, they'll have a risk management department that will be involved in these scenarios. They're not going to support mandatory reporting or involuntary committing unless they feel it's necessary. If anything, those institutions are probably going to be biased against these things because of costs. Independent therapists are going to avoid this because it's a huge hassle for them, too. Plus it's usually going to risk their relationship with that patient and possibly put them at liability if the patient decides to sue or go after them with their certifying board. (There is also risk, of course, if they clearly have a mandatory reporting situation and don't take action.)

wlll 4y ago

It sounds like you need a lawyer not a therapist.

notch898a 4y ago
maslow's hierarchy of useful professionals for dealing with life's traumas therapist d o c t o r l a w y e r s t r i p p e r