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It would be a shame if Putin decided to follow Washington's lead and simply criminalize the ICC itself [1]. Yes, were Putin to wash up at Plymouth Rock, it wou

It would be a shame if Putin decided to follow Washington's lead and simply criminalize the ICC itself [1]. Yes, were Putin to wash up at Plymouth Rock, it would be a federal crime for any LEO to comply with the ICC and arrest him. Not that that would stop them, but it's funny to consider. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

ceejayoz 4y ago
I don't think that's true. > Additionally, the act does not prohibit the U.S. from assisting in the search and capture of foreign nationals wanted for prosecution by the ICC, specifically naming Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milošević, and Osama bin Laden as examples.
- pphysch 4y ago
  I mean if the LEO were to say something like "according to ICC warrant, you're under arrest!". But practically they would just arrest him and pretend they've never heard of the ICC.
ialyos 4y ago
I don’t think that’s true! IIUC the protections from that act only apply to a subset of humans, including us military and nato military members. It’s in the article you linked! So if you see Putin at your local Safeway go ahead and citizens arrest him :)
maximinus_thrax 4y ago
It's extra hilarious that you actually posted the link which proves everything you said is false. Putin isn't an American service member and neither an American in general. He can't be 'extradited' if he wasn't here in the first place, and the article also states: > Additionally, the act does not prohibit the U.S. from assisting in the search and capture of foreign nationals wanted for prosecution by the ICC
- pphysch 4y ago
  You're missing the forest from the trees: Washington considers the ICC a complete joke.
  - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
    Maybe, but what you originally said is false.
    - pphysch 4y ago
      No, it is not. While the spirit of the law is to protect USA personnel and not official enemies like Putin, Section 4 prohibits any explicit cooperation with the ICC. My other comment included the clause "comply with the ICC", which is forbidden. It is your comments that are misleading.
      - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
        I'm sorry, but do you have reading comprehension issues? https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ206/html/PLAW-107publ206.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ206/html/PLA... > SEC. 2015. <<NOTE: 22 USC 7433.>> ASSISTANCE TO INTERNATIONAL EFFORTS. > Nothing in this title shall prohibit the United States from rendering assistance to international efforts to bring to justice Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosovic, Osama bin Laden, other members of Al Queda, leaders of Islamic Jihad, and other foreign nationals accused of genocide, war crimes or crimes against humanity. From the ICC: > Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute).
tomjen3 4y ago
Yeah, but he could be tried for war crimes, which might get him the death penalty in the US.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Yes, were Putin to wash up at Plymouth Rock, it would be a federal crime for any LEO to comply with the ICC and arrest him. I mean, since ICC arrest warrants have no force in the US, it would be a violation of due process and hence false arrest, but the American Service Members Protection Act has nothing to do with that. It would not be illegal, however, for American law enforcement officers to arrest him on a US warrant pursuant to an extradition request from a Rome Statue Party, because the ICC extradition protections in the Act extend only to US citizens, which Putin decidedly is not. Of course, the US could also just try, convict, and execute Putin for war crimes itself in that case, and the ICC doesn’t apply the death penalty, so I’m not sure not getting extradited to the ICC would be a win for Putin, anyway. The US War Crimes statute allows US exercise of jurisdiction if either any part of the offense occurs in the US, any victim was a US citizen or service member, or the offender happens to be present in the US, regardless of where the crime occurred and the nationality of victims.

ceejayoz 4y ago

I don't think that's true. > Additionally, the act does not prohibit the U.S. from assisting in the search and capture of foreign nationals wanted for prosecution by the ICC, specifically naming Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milošević, and Osama bin Laden as examples.

pphysch 4y ago
I mean if the LEO were to say something like "according to ICC warrant, you're under arrest!". But practically they would just arrest him and pretend they've never heard of the ICC.

ialyos 4y ago

I don’t think that’s true! IIUC the protections from that act only apply to a subset of humans, including us military and nato military members. It’s in the article you linked! So if you see Putin at your local Safeway go ahead and citizens arrest him :)

maximinus_thrax 4y ago

It's extra hilarious that you actually posted the link which proves everything you said is false. Putin isn't an American service member and neither an American in general. He can't be 'extradited' if he wasn't here in the first place, and the article also states: > Additionally, the act does not prohibit the U.S. from assisting in the search and capture of foreign nationals wanted for prosecution by the ICC

pphysch 4y ago
You're missing the forest from the trees: Washington considers the ICC a complete joke.
- maximinus_thrax 4y ago
  Maybe, but what you originally said is false.
  - pphysch 4y ago
    No, it is not. While the spirit of the law is to protect USA personnel and not official enemies like Putin, Section 4 prohibits any explicit cooperation with the ICC. My other comment included the clause "comply with the ICC", which is forbidden. It is your comments that are misleading.
    - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
      I'm sorry, but do you have reading comprehension issues? https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ206/html/PLAW-107publ206.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ206/html/PLA... > SEC. 2015. <<NOTE: 22 USC 7433.>> ASSISTANCE TO INTERNATIONAL EFFORTS. > Nothing in this title shall prohibit the United States from rendering assistance to international efforts to bring to justice Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosovic, Osama bin Laden, other members of Al Queda, leaders of Islamic Jihad, and other foreign nationals accused of genocide, war crimes or crimes against humanity. From the ICC: > Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute).

tomjen3 4y ago

Yeah, but he could be tried for war crimes, which might get him the death penalty in the US.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Yes, were Putin to wash up at Plymouth Rock, it would be a federal crime for any LEO to comply with the ICC and arrest him. I mean, since ICC arrest warrants have no force in the US, it would be a violation of due process and hence false arrest, but the American Service Members Protection Act has nothing to do with that. It would not be illegal, however, for American law enforcement officers to arrest him on a US warrant pursuant to an extradition request from a Rome Statue Party, because the ICC extradition protections in the Act extend only to US citizens, which Putin decidedly is not. Of course, the US could also just try, convict, and execute Putin for war crimes itself in that case, and the ICC doesn’t apply the death penalty, so I’m not sure not getting extradited to the ICC would be a win for Putin, anyway. The US War Crimes statute allows US exercise of jurisdiction if either any part of the offense occurs in the US, any victim was a US citizen or service member, or the offender happens to be present in the US, regardless of where the crime occurred and the nationality of victims.