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I'm disheartened by this trend of only caring about things to the extent that they land you a job or otherwise earn money. If the only classes that matter to y

I'm disheartened by this trend of only caring about things to the extent that they land you a job or otherwise earn money. If the only classes that matter to you are the ones that allow you to take shortcuts, I submit that you have missed at least half the point of higher education, and almost everything interesting and rewarding in CS/programming. I also submit that you are more likely to find yourself pigeonholed into writing REST endpoints for the bulk of your career, and turn into one of those jaded programmers who complains about how they're not solving interesting problems. And if you care about excellence, consider the following. No matter how hard you study, you'll sooner or later find yourself competing against someone who's studied as hard as you, and also loves what they're doing.

Illniyar 4y ago
These aren't shortcuts. The other classes are just not relevant to the profession. Besides you pay a lot of money to higher education to get a job. If you want to learn, just read a book or something.
- omginternets 4y ago
  >The other classes are just not relevant to the profession. Which profession? Working at the digital factory where you write REST endpoints all day? Maybe. But then why even go to university? Or are you talking about the kind of software engineering where you are working on problems that actually require some deep knowledge? And either way, why not pursue the kind of profession where you earn a living and have an intrinsic interest in the subject matter?
tayo42 4y ago
when a degree is going to put me in debt it better return something though... id like to go back to school as mature adult, to expesnive, ill just watch youtube and read books to satisfy my curiosities lol
veqq 4y ago
A lot of it is due to different conversational contexts. "The most interesting" or "funnest class" vs. "the most useful" or "relevant at work". The liberal arts ideal has not been relevant for college qua improver of base economic status for a while now. While many schools concentrate on this, those which primarily attract students looking to better their lot should not mix up the goals and offer students too much irrelevant material - that's not why they students are there. I personally value languages (dead and modern), poetry, history, philosophy etc. and spend more time with them than coding, publishing articles, living my whole adult life in other countries to have more language practice... but I wouldn't pretend they've helped me professionally. Now of course, many times students or even instructors missappreciate a course. Many of us pine at SICP no longer being used in CompSci courses - when its self justifying vitality and insight is an obvious boon to all involved! In response to you: I submit that many aren't in the right place in life or simply have differing goals and life paths and literally want to be pigeonholed into writing REST endpoints. Any philosophy, deeper consideration of what software or computer science are etc. is besides the point and they simply want to provide for their families. Once having reached a certain point, they are happy. You and me may both find that tragic and misguided in light of the rapidly changing workplace (not to speak of AI), but we are different people. A larger variety of educational goals at various establishments could go a long way.
- omginternets 4y ago
  >I submit that many aren't in the right place in life or simply have differing goals and life paths and literally want to be pigeonholed into writing REST endpoints. Fair, but then why bother with university? It's certainly cheaper (and likely faster) to get an entry-level dev job and grind l33tcode, since -- as you claim -- university classes aren't bringing a whole lot of value. If you think the degree is important for some other reason, and if you insist on having a narrow financial view of higher ed, then we're left wondering why you wouldn't maximize your investment. For example, you could pursue a career in a field that pays well and that you find stimulating.
michaelt 4y ago
Some people feel, because the costs of college are so high, they can only be justified by increased earning potential. If you're on a student's budget and cash is so tight you have to share a bedroom - do you want to learn to ballroom dance at $250 per credit hour?
- omginternets 4y ago
  If your tuition costs are so high, then surely you're trying to get the most out of higher education. What the OP is preaching is exactly the opposite of that.
norbas 4y ago
But this is so right. From univeristy lecturers standpoint, why would they ever want to teach people on how to be good at a JOB (especially when the lecturers left the job market, say, 15 years ago)? Whole idea of higher education (as I see it) is to guide you and your interests towards academic/scientific career. For me, demanding from higher education to teach you how to do your job is like some people complaining that school should teach you how to do taxes, fill tax forms, etc. I mean, who is going to be the wise if universities teach you to be a white collar, and school teaches you to do taxes?
loldk 4y ago
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Illniyar 4y ago

These aren't shortcuts. The other classes are just not relevant to the profession. Besides you pay a lot of money to higher education to get a job. If you want to learn, just read a book or something.

omginternets 4y ago
>The other classes are just not relevant to the profession. Which profession? Working at the digital factory where you write REST endpoints all day? Maybe. But then why even go to university? Or are you talking about the kind of software engineering where you are working on problems that actually require some deep knowledge? And either way, why not pursue the kind of profession where you earn a living and have an intrinsic interest in the subject matter?

tayo42 4y ago

when a degree is going to put me in debt it better return something though... id like to go back to school as mature adult, to expesnive, ill just watch youtube and read books to satisfy my curiosities lol

veqq 4y ago

A lot of it is due to different conversational contexts. "The most interesting" or "funnest class" vs. "the most useful" or "relevant at work". The liberal arts ideal has not been relevant for college qua improver of base economic status for a while now. While many schools concentrate on this, those which primarily attract students looking to better their lot should not mix up the goals and offer students too much irrelevant material - that's not why they students are there. I personally value languages (dead and modern), poetry, history, philosophy etc. and spend more time with them than coding, publishing articles, living my whole adult life in other countries to have more language practice... but I wouldn't pretend they've helped me professionally. Now of course, many times students or even instructors missappreciate a course. Many of us pine at SICP no longer being used in CompSci courses - when its self justifying vitality and insight is an obvious boon to all involved! In response to you: I submit that many aren't in the right place in life or simply have differing goals and life paths and literally want to be pigeonholed into writing REST endpoints. Any philosophy, deeper consideration of what software or computer science are etc. is besides the point and they simply want to provide for their families. Once having reached a certain point, they are happy. You and me may both find that tragic and misguided in light of the rapidly changing workplace (not to speak of AI), but we are different people. A larger variety of educational goals at various establishments could go a long way.

omginternets 4y ago
>I submit that many aren't in the right place in life or simply have differing goals and life paths and literally want to be pigeonholed into writing REST endpoints. Fair, but then why bother with university? It's certainly cheaper (and likely faster) to get an entry-level dev job and grind l33tcode, since -- as you claim -- university classes aren't bringing a whole lot of value. If you think the degree is important for some other reason, and if you insist on having a narrow financial view of higher ed, then we're left wondering why you wouldn't maximize your investment. For example, you could pursue a career in a field that pays well and that you find stimulating.

michaelt 4y ago

Some people feel, because the costs of college are so high, they can only be justified by increased earning potential. If you're on a student's budget and cash is so tight you have to share a bedroom - do you want to learn to ballroom dance at $250 per credit hour?

omginternets 4y ago
If your tuition costs are so high, then surely you're trying to get the most out of higher education. What the OP is preaching is exactly the opposite of that.

norbas 4y ago

But this is so right. From univeristy lecturers standpoint, why would they ever want to teach people on how to be good at a JOB (especially when the lecturers left the job market, say, 15 years ago)? Whole idea of higher education (as I see it) is to guide you and your interests towards academic/scientific career. For me, demanding from higher education to teach you how to do your job is like some people complaining that school should teach you how to do taxes, fill tax forms, etc. I mean, who is going to be the wise if universities teach you to be a white collar, and school teaches you to do taxes?

loldk 4y ago

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