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You are implying that "Western aggression" is the same as "Ukrainian aggression". They are not. Please quit gaslighting.

by D_Alex 4y ago

vel0city 4y ago
"The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kyiv regime." - Putin, from the links above. Please read them before arguing what Putin has or has not said. Who is the Kyiv regime? I guess to you they're not Ukrainians. Who's gaslighting, the person literally quoting what Putin says, or the one essentially arguing Putin isn't a Russian and the Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian? The current Kyiv Regime == Western, to Putin. So "defending against Western aggression" is "defending against Kyiv regime" is "defending against Ukraine." Please quit spreading lies.
- D_Alex 4y ago
  >Who's gaslighting You are. You are continuing to imply that "Western" and "Ukrainian" are the same to Putin. While in your links, which I read, right near the top, there is a statement about "the fundamental threats which irresponsible Western politicians created for Russia consistently, rudely and unceremoniously from year to year. I am referring to the eastward expansion of NATO, which is moving its military infrastructure ever closer to the Russian border." Maybe read the whole thing again. And please stop your gaslighting already.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    So the regime in Kyiv isn't Ukrainian, it's "Western". Got it. Makes total sense. And to defend against the Western world, they need to shell checks notes dozens of Ukrainian cities, which were controlled by the government in Kyiv. Right. Which isn't Ukrainian, it's "Western", which are definitely two different things. Huh. I'm quite confused by how you've twisted things. Is they Kyiv regime Ukranian or not? Is Ukraine Western or not? Did they have to defend themselves from Western world? Did they have to defend themselves from Ukraine? Are those really separate? Isn't saying they had to defend against the Western world and the Kyiv regime acknowledging they're one in the same? I'd love if you'd spell out what you really think about the topic.
    - D_Alex 4y ago
      What have I twisted? Look at my opening post, to which you replied "Please stop spreading lies". What was the lie again? You doubled down and had to twist like an eel to try and justify your statements. As for what I think: I think that we, "the West", are playing a stupid and evil role in this conflict. Furthermore, we are spreading misinformation in order to manufacture consent among the public, often in an incredibly crude manner. I'm prepared to discuss this, but maybe one thing - you pick which - at a time.
      - vel0city 4y ago
        What you've twisted is you're essentially arguing the Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian. Putin sees the Kyiv regime as Western and an expansion of NATO influence, he says so in the speech I linked above. If the special operation is having to defend against Western influence, and the Kyiv regime isn't Western, why is he shelling the Kyiv regime? Your lie is arguing Putin never said they had to defend against Ukranian aggression. In my quote above, he talked about needing to act because of aggressive actions from the Kyiv regime. So either the Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian to you, or Putin did say they needed to defend against Ukranian aggression. Putin feels the Kyiv regime is an extension of Western NATO influence, and he stated he had to act in defense against their aggression in DNR/LNR/Crimea. This is all in the speech I linked, not twisting any of his words at all. So yes, Putin has absolutely argued he had to defend against "the regime in Kyiv", which I think most of the world would take to mean Ukraine. So it's pretty fair to say Russia phrased this as "defend against Ukraine", unless you are arguing the regime in Kyiv isn't Ukranian or Putin and the Kremlin aren't Russian. Could you answer if you believe the Kyiv regime is Ukranian?
        D_Alex 4y ago
        >Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian I'm not actually arguing that. However: Zelensky was elected largely by the voters in the eastern regions of Ukraine, and largely because he promised to bring peace to those regions. He has failed in that promise and betrayed his voters. Most likely because of Western influence. >Putin sees the Kyiv regime as Western ... ... he says so in the speech I linked above.... etc. I read the entire thing and I don't see it. Which paragraph are you talking about? Is it this one: "...the leading NATO countries are supporting the far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine, those who will never forgive the people of Crimea and Sevastopol for freely making a choice to reunite with Russia. They will undoubtedly try to bring war to Crimea just as they have done in Donbass..." because that's certainly not about "Ukrainians" in the sense that you keep on implying. >Could you answer if you believe the Kyiv regime is Ukranian? Let me try. The current Kiev regime is made up of Ukrainian nationals. However, it is no longer acting in the interests of Ukrainian people. It has become a sock puppet of the NATO countries. So I believe that it is "Ukrainian" in the same sense that the ruling party of China is "communist" or that Donald Trump is a "conservative". Hope that answers your question.

You are implying that "Western aggression" is the same as "Ukrainian aggression". They are not. Please quit gaslighting.

by D_Alex 4y ago

You are implying that "Western aggression" is the same as "Ukrainian aggression". They are not. Please quit gaslighting.

vel0city 4y ago

"The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kyiv regime." - Putin, from the links above. Please read them before arguing what Putin has or has not said. Who is the Kyiv regime? I guess to you they're not Ukrainians. Who's gaslighting, the person literally quoting what Putin says, or the one essentially arguing Putin isn't a Russian and the Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian? The current Kyiv Regime == Western, to Putin. So "defending against Western aggression" is "defending against Kyiv regime" is "defending against Ukraine." Please quit spreading lies.

D_Alex 4y ago
>Who's gaslighting You are. You are continuing to imply that "Western" and "Ukrainian" are the same to Putin. While in your links, which I read, right near the top, there is a statement about "the fundamental threats which irresponsible Western politicians created for Russia consistently, rudely and unceremoniously from year to year. I am referring to the eastward expansion of NATO, which is moving its military infrastructure ever closer to the Russian border." Maybe read the whole thing again. And please stop your gaslighting already.
- vel0city 4y ago
  So the regime in Kyiv isn't Ukrainian, it's "Western". Got it. Makes total sense. And to defend against the Western world, they need to shell checks notes dozens of Ukrainian cities, which were controlled by the government in Kyiv. Right. Which isn't Ukrainian, it's "Western", which are definitely two different things. Huh. I'm quite confused by how you've twisted things. Is they Kyiv regime Ukranian or not? Is Ukraine Western or not? Did they have to defend themselves from Western world? Did they have to defend themselves from Ukraine? Are those really separate? Isn't saying they had to defend against the Western world and the Kyiv regime acknowledging they're one in the same? I'd love if you'd spell out what you really think about the topic.
  - D_Alex 4y ago
    What have I twisted? Look at my opening post, to which you replied "Please stop spreading lies". What was the lie again? You doubled down and had to twist like an eel to try and justify your statements. As for what I think: I think that we, "the West", are playing a stupid and evil role in this conflict. Furthermore, we are spreading misinformation in order to manufacture consent among the public, often in an incredibly crude manner. I'm prepared to discuss this, but maybe one thing - you pick which - at a time.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      What you've twisted is you're essentially arguing the Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian. Putin sees the Kyiv regime as Western and an expansion of NATO influence, he says so in the speech I linked above. If the special operation is having to defend against Western influence, and the Kyiv regime isn't Western, why is he shelling the Kyiv regime? Your lie is arguing Putin never said they had to defend against Ukranian aggression. In my quote above, he talked about needing to act because of aggressive actions from the Kyiv regime. So either the Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian to you, or Putin did say they needed to defend against Ukranian aggression. Putin feels the Kyiv regime is an extension of Western NATO influence, and he stated he had to act in defense against their aggression in DNR/LNR/Crimea. This is all in the speech I linked, not twisting any of his words at all. So yes, Putin has absolutely argued he had to defend against "the regime in Kyiv", which I think most of the world would take to mean Ukraine. So it's pretty fair to say Russia phrased this as "defend against Ukraine", unless you are arguing the regime in Kyiv isn't Ukranian or Putin and the Kremlin aren't Russian. Could you answer if you believe the Kyiv regime is Ukranian?
      - D_Alex 4y ago
        >Kyiv regime isn't Ukranian I'm not actually arguing that. However: Zelensky was elected largely by the voters in the eastern regions of Ukraine, and largely because he promised to bring peace to those regions. He has failed in that promise and betrayed his voters. Most likely because of Western influence. >Putin sees the Kyiv regime as Western ... ... he says so in the speech I linked above.... etc. I read the entire thing and I don't see it. Which paragraph are you talking about? Is it this one: "...the leading NATO countries are supporting the far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine, those who will never forgive the people of Crimea and Sevastopol for freely making a choice to reunite with Russia. They will undoubtedly try to bring war to Crimea just as they have done in Donbass..." because that's certainly not about "Ukrainians" in the sense that you keep on implying. >Could you answer if you believe the Kyiv regime is Ukranian? Let me try. The current Kiev regime is made up of Ukrainian nationals. However, it is no longer acting in the interests of Ukrainian people. It has become a sock puppet of the NATO countries. So I believe that it is "Ukrainian" in the same sense that the ruling party of China is "communist" or that Donald Trump is a "conservative". Hope that answers your question.