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I hope your calling The Guardian and especially the CIA... I mean the NYT "independent journalism" is an elaborate joke.

by favaq 4y ago

Ma8ee 4y ago
Why do you think so?
- chiefalchemist 4y ago
  Not the original commentor. As a longer time and now former NYT reader, it has definitely fallen off. It's abandoned balance and objectivity for trite left-leaning talking points. The breakup came when I realized I could not longer trust it to inform me to the depth and breadth I needed. At this point, it's an average news publication - notice I didn't say journalism - riding on the fumes of its history. It's not bad. But every since the internet its become more and more generic.
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 4y ago
  Because publications like the NYT depend on access for their "journalism" [0]. Independent/investigative journalism requires an adversarial relationship to power, and looks more like [1]. In past decades, the establishment was occasionally forced to grapple with this [2] [3] but at this point the public discussion is so captured, it's no longer necessary. Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent lays it out in depth. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/29/correspondence-collusion-new-york-times-cia https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/29/corres... [1] https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/releases/ https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/releases/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee [3] https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/27/archives/cia-established-many-links-to-journalists-in-us-and-abroad-cias.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/27/archives/cia-established-...
chimprich 4y ago
The Guardian is one of the best examples of independent journalism. It's owned by the Scott Trust. It was set up by the original owner in the 30s to ensure editorial independence. People do sometimes confuse "editorial independence" with "taking an editorial line I personally disagree with", however.

I hope your calling The Guardian and especially the CIA... I mean the NYT "independent journalism" is an elaborate joke.

by favaq 4y ago

I hope your calling The Guardian and especially the CIA... I mean the NYT "independent journalism" is an elaborate joke.

Ma8ee 4y ago

Why do you think so?

chiefalchemist 4y ago
Not the original commentor. As a longer time and now former NYT reader, it has definitely fallen off. It's abandoned balance and objectivity for trite left-leaning talking points. The breakup came when I realized I could not longer trust it to inform me to the depth and breadth I needed. At this point, it's an average news publication - notice I didn't say journalism - riding on the fumes of its history. It's not bad. But every since the internet its become more and more generic.
JPws_Prntr_Fngr 4y ago
Because publications like the NYT depend on access for their "journalism" [0]. Independent/investigative journalism requires an adversarial relationship to power, and looks more like [1]. In past decades, the establishment was occasionally forced to grapple with this [2] [3] but at this point the public discussion is so captured, it's no longer necessary. Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent lays it out in depth. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/29/correspondence-collusion-new-york-times-cia https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/29/corres... [1] https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/releases/ https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/releases/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee [3] https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/27/archives/cia-established-many-links-to-journalists-in-us-and-abroad-cias.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/27/archives/cia-established-...

chimprich 4y ago

The Guardian is one of the best examples of independent journalism. It's owned by the Scott Trust. It was set up by the original owner in the 30s to ensure editorial independence. People do sometimes confuse "editorial independence" with "taking an editorial line I personally disagree with", however.