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Meanwhile, states and cities are trying to illegalize vaping while leaving cigarettes on shelves, not to mention continuing the criminally stupid "war on drugs"

Meanwhile, states and cities are trying to illegalize vaping while leaving cigarettes on shelves, not to mention continuing the criminally stupid "war on drugs" in ways too myriad to count while retaining one's sanity. _sigh_

jcranmer 4y ago
In all seriousness: where are e-cigarettes more restricted than cigarettes?
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  I'm going to give you the official reasons, because I do believe that is the "why" for most people who want to ban them: They are more attractive to kids. Tobacco is an acquired taste. I enjoy a yearly cigar but even it can be a bit strong for me. Vaping has flavors and is smooth and gentle. The problem here is not just that cigs are worse for you than vaping. Kids smoke because smoking is rebellious behavior. Making vaping illegal will only make it more rebellious. Also nicotine is a pretty solid fix for anxiety which kids are full of. There is a an alternative argument that vaping bans are due to tobacco industry insiders. Honestly though they would probably refer to capture profits than ban them. Vaping is relatively safe, esp compared to tobacco. My two pack a day mother who smoked since she was 14 moved entirely to vaping and got her nicotine habit very under control. This was a woman who got in trouble for smoking in a hospital bed pregnant yet was willing to forego her vape for four hours without even a complaint last time she had to fly.
  - jcranmer 4y ago
    I didn't ask why people want to ban e-cigarettes; I asked where are they controlled more severely than cigarettes (and I don't consider flavor bans to be more severe than controls on cigarettes, since cigarettes themselves have rules on their composition which include flavor!)
    - agentwiggles 4y ago
      The city I live in recently passed a ban on "flavored tobacco," which includes (for some reason) vape products. While this ban has not taken effect yet, after it does, the net effect will be that full strength cigarettes like Marlboro Reds remain accessible at every gas station and corner store, while any vape product with a "flavor" is no longer legally saleable in the city limits. I guess if flavor bans don't count for you, this wouldn't bother you. For me, this is a major "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" move that will remove access to a class of product with great effectiveness for smoking cessation and harm reduction. The reasoning, to my eye, seem to be largely moral panic bullshit, largely caused by the popularity of vaping among teenagers. (Why not impose harsher penalties for stores selling to underage kids? Seems to work fairly well for liquor in my experience.) I'm also generally opposed to prohibition and think adults should be able to decide what goes into their bodies, so I'm opposed in principle.
      - the_only_law 4y ago
        It’s gotten so ridiculous I’ve started to see jobs… fully remote… that say will refuse to hire you if you use any nicotine products, explicitly including quitting aids like gums and patches.
        agentwiggles 4y ago
        That raises my eyebrows... How do they plan to validate this? What's to stop one from just... lying?
        orangepurple 4y ago
        Urinalysis
        agentwiggles 4y ago
        A quick google suggests nicotine stays in your system for just a few days after quitting. I realize of course that it's hard to just quit nicotine on a whim for a few days, but I imagine most could do it for the sake of a job.
  - bluSCALE4 4y ago
    God, I can't stand vaping. I went to a concert and the guy next to me literally vaped for 3 hours straight. That's like 2 boxes in one sitting. I don't mind those that take small swigs here and there but just puffing it non-stop is like, dude, you're going to die.
- alanlammiman 4y ago
  Brazil. Sale of ecigs is not permitted, cigarettes have the usual restrictions (but not taxed as heavily as some other places). Still - I have to give it to them. I get the feeling it was the right call. No vaping ads and vape shops everywhere like I see in Europe
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    Vaping in some EU countries is out of control. Due to the lack of government regulations compared to normal cigs, smokers found it as a good loophole for indoor smoking and switched to vaping everywhere, especially in public spaces like malls, pubs, clubs, shopping centers, etc. And whenever you tell them "please stop vaping here", unless you're a bouncer, they'll lash out saying "it's not illegal, show me which law forbids me vaping indoor; yeah smoking is forbidden indoor, but vaping is not smoking and this is just steam bro, not smoke, it's not dangerous for you". Some venues enforce a vape ban on their own, but most don't want to piss off their customers, so many venues ignore the people who vape inside.
  - himinlomax 4y ago
    > I get the feeling it was the right call. No vaping ads and vape shops everywhere like I see in Europe Vapes cause at most 1/100 the harm cigarettes do. There is no combustion products, only nicotine, and not always. The only harm they do is as a possible gateway to actual smoked tobacco. As such, banning them while allowing tobacco is completely nonsensical. It should be the other way around.
- 55555 4y ago
  Thailand. They're illegal. Cigarettes are not.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wartron 4y ago
  San Francisco

jcranmer 4y ago

In all seriousness: where are e-cigarettes more restricted than cigarettes?

vorpalhex 4y ago
I'm going to give you the official reasons, because I do believe that is the "why" for most people who want to ban them: They are more attractive to kids. Tobacco is an acquired taste. I enjoy a yearly cigar but even it can be a bit strong for me. Vaping has flavors and is smooth and gentle. The problem here is not just that cigs are worse for you than vaping. Kids smoke because smoking is rebellious behavior. Making vaping illegal will only make it more rebellious. Also nicotine is a pretty solid fix for anxiety which kids are full of. There is a an alternative argument that vaping bans are due to tobacco industry insiders. Honestly though they would probably refer to capture profits than ban them. Vaping is relatively safe, esp compared to tobacco. My two pack a day mother who smoked since she was 14 moved entirely to vaping and got her nicotine habit very under control. This was a woman who got in trouble for smoking in a hospital bed pregnant yet was willing to forego her vape for four hours without even a complaint last time she had to fly.
- jcranmer 4y ago
  I didn't ask why people want to ban e-cigarettes; I asked where are they controlled more severely than cigarettes (and I don't consider flavor bans to be more severe than controls on cigarettes, since cigarettes themselves have rules on their composition which include flavor!)
  - agentwiggles 4y ago
    The city I live in recently passed a ban on "flavored tobacco," which includes (for some reason) vape products. While this ban has not taken effect yet, after it does, the net effect will be that full strength cigarettes like Marlboro Reds remain accessible at every gas station and corner store, while any vape product with a "flavor" is no longer legally saleable in the city limits. I guess if flavor bans don't count for you, this wouldn't bother you. For me, this is a major "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" move that will remove access to a class of product with great effectiveness for smoking cessation and harm reduction. The reasoning, to my eye, seem to be largely moral panic bullshit, largely caused by the popularity of vaping among teenagers. (Why not impose harsher penalties for stores selling to underage kids? Seems to work fairly well for liquor in my experience.) I'm also generally opposed to prohibition and think adults should be able to decide what goes into their bodies, so I'm opposed in principle.
    - the_only_law 4y ago
      It’s gotten so ridiculous I’ve started to see jobs… fully remote… that say will refuse to hire you if you use any nicotine products, explicitly including quitting aids like gums and patches.
      - agentwiggles 4y ago
        That raises my eyebrows... How do they plan to validate this? What's to stop one from just... lying?
        orangepurple 4y ago
        Urinalysis
        agentwiggles 4y ago
        A quick google suggests nicotine stays in your system for just a few days after quitting. I realize of course that it's hard to just quit nicotine on a whim for a few days, but I imagine most could do it for the sake of a job.
- bluSCALE4 4y ago
  God, I can't stand vaping. I went to a concert and the guy next to me literally vaped for 3 hours straight. That's like 2 boxes in one sitting. I don't mind those that take small swigs here and there but just puffing it non-stop is like, dude, you're going to die.
alanlammiman 4y ago
Brazil. Sale of ecigs is not permitted, cigarettes have the usual restrictions (but not taxed as heavily as some other places). Still - I have to give it to them. I get the feeling it was the right call. No vaping ads and vape shops everywhere like I see in Europe
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Vaping in some EU countries is out of control. Due to the lack of government regulations compared to normal cigs, smokers found it as a good loophole for indoor smoking and switched to vaping everywhere, especially in public spaces like malls, pubs, clubs, shopping centers, etc. And whenever you tell them "please stop vaping here", unless you're a bouncer, they'll lash out saying "it's not illegal, show me which law forbids me vaping indoor; yeah smoking is forbidden indoor, but vaping is not smoking and this is just steam bro, not smoke, it's not dangerous for you". Some venues enforce a vape ban on their own, but most don't want to piss off their customers, so many venues ignore the people who vape inside.
- himinlomax 4y ago
  > I get the feeling it was the right call. No vaping ads and vape shops everywhere like I see in Europe Vapes cause at most 1/100 the harm cigarettes do. There is no combustion products, only nicotine, and not always. The only harm they do is as a possible gateway to actual smoked tobacco. As such, banning them while allowing tobacco is completely nonsensical. It should be the other way around.
55555 4y ago
Thailand. They're illegal. Cigarettes are not.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wartron 4y ago
San Francisco