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And the panel of American Idol type judges at OpenAI who override those votes as the self appointed arbitrators of good taste and insist on claiming the tool is

And the panel of American Idol type judges at OpenAI who override those votes as the self appointed arbitrators of good taste and insist on claiming the tool is neutral rather than neutered.

kennywinker 4y ago
Right. This thing that is inherently biased and cannot be made unbiased because its very basic components are biased, has also been given some rules that further bias it. And yet you don’t seem to understand why i’m far more concerned that we think it’s possible to make an unbiased ai than with the arbitrary rules its been given. Chatgpt will not be king of ai forever, and the next company will give their ai a different set of rules… but it’ll still be biased at its core.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  You aren't using the term bias correctly so most of what you're asking for is directly backwards. Nobody else would call this bias, we'd call it accuracy. You are literally just trying to shape it yourself, in a more damaging way than if it was left to model actual human speech. If you got your way you'd create a "proper thinking" checker. But go for it - the tools are out there. Try it and convince us that an electronic scolding machine is a good thing.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    You’re, at this point probably willfully, misunderstanding basically everything i’ve said. I do not want ai (ohh, sorry… llm’s eyeroll) that validates the pc-ness of what you’re writing about. What i’d actually like is for ai to provide a list of sources for every idea that has influenced what it spits out. The traceability of ideas is important and as ai gets more ingrained in the tools we use being able to see where ideas are coming from is the only way i can see to be able to counteract the biases in the system. You ask it about banking systems, and you notice that the sources it’s drawing from are all koch brothers funded garbage, or the communist manifesto, or whatever, and you can see that the text its generating from these prompts isn’t going to be balanced This would help in the dumb poem about trump example, as the rules chatgpt has about talking about trump or biden would have to be there for everyone to see.
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      Hey, listen, if you don't care about the difference between things and you want to still feel you're doing meaningful analysis, then go right ahead. And no, clearly you do want nagging AI because it was one of your examples. > [gender neutral story] and if pressed would ask the user of the ai to suggest a gender for the character. Oh no, your story request wasn't PC enough, you can't have a full story until the AI sealions you for a while. "Why do you want a male Robber?" "What do you mean males are stronger?" ... > What i’d actually like is for ai to provide a list of sources for every idea that has influenced what it spits out. [...] You ask it about banking systems, and you notice that the sources it’s drawing from are all koch brothers funded garbage, or the communist manifesto, or whatever, and you can see that the text its generating from these prompts isn’t going to be balanced That isn't how it works though. ChatGPT will happily write a yay/nay for almost anything even if it's odd/unpopular/evil, unless that idea is in a specific list where it won't say anything at all. If you ask a question "what form of banking is the best" and you get a Koch-alike answer it's not because they flooded it with banking ideas, but because their answers are written to follow on from that question. If you asked it something like "why is traditional finance harmful" it wouldn't weigh that against the numbers in support or against, it'd just finish that prompt based on the texts it has seen which start that way. That's why our sex/gender output was so different. Your source-tracking idea would be helpful for debugging, but these "opinions" you think it has are just a ghost in the words. > This would help in the dumb poem about trump example, as the rules chatgpt has about talking about trump or biden would have to be there for everyone to see. Even if googled for something and found no poems about it ChatGPT would still be able to write you one. It's not an issue of volume of training data and purely of output filtering.

And the panel of American Idol type judges at OpenAI who override those votes as the self appointed arbitrators of good taste and insist on claiming the tool is neutral rather than neutered.

kennywinker 4y ago

Right. This thing that is inherently biased and cannot be made unbiased because its very basic components are biased, has also been given some rules that further bias it. And yet you don’t seem to understand why i’m far more concerned that we think it’s possible to make an unbiased ai than with the arbitrary rules its been given. Chatgpt will not be king of ai forever, and the next company will give their ai a different set of rules… but it’ll still be biased at its core.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
You aren't using the term bias correctly so most of what you're asking for is directly backwards. Nobody else would call this bias, we'd call it accuracy. You are literally just trying to shape it yourself, in a more damaging way than if it was left to model actual human speech. If you got your way you'd create a "proper thinking" checker. But go for it - the tools are out there. Try it and convince us that an electronic scolding machine is a good thing.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  You’re, at this point probably willfully, misunderstanding basically everything i’ve said. I do not want ai (ohh, sorry… llm’s eyeroll) that validates the pc-ness of what you’re writing about. What i’d actually like is for ai to provide a list of sources for every idea that has influenced what it spits out. The traceability of ideas is important and as ai gets more ingrained in the tools we use being able to see where ideas are coming from is the only way i can see to be able to counteract the biases in the system. You ask it about banking systems, and you notice that the sources it’s drawing from are all koch brothers funded garbage, or the communist manifesto, or whatever, and you can see that the text its generating from these prompts isn’t going to be balanced This would help in the dumb poem about trump example, as the rules chatgpt has about talking about trump or biden would have to be there for everyone to see.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    Hey, listen, if you don't care about the difference between things and you want to still feel you're doing meaningful analysis, then go right ahead. And no, clearly you do want nagging AI because it was one of your examples. > [gender neutral story] and if pressed would ask the user of the ai to suggest a gender for the character. Oh no, your story request wasn't PC enough, you can't have a full story until the AI sealions you for a while. "Why do you want a male Robber?" "What do you mean males are stronger?" ... > What i’d actually like is for ai to provide a list of sources for every idea that has influenced what it spits out. [...] You ask it about banking systems, and you notice that the sources it’s drawing from are all koch brothers funded garbage, or the communist manifesto, or whatever, and you can see that the text its generating from these prompts isn’t going to be balanced That isn't how it works though. ChatGPT will happily write a yay/nay for almost anything even if it's odd/unpopular/evil, unless that idea is in a specific list where it won't say anything at all. If you ask a question "what form of banking is the best" and you get a Koch-alike answer it's not because they flooded it with banking ideas, but because their answers are written to follow on from that question. If you asked it something like "why is traditional finance harmful" it wouldn't weigh that against the numbers in support or against, it'd just finish that prompt based on the texts it has seen which start that way. That's why our sex/gender output was so different. Your source-tracking idea would be helpful for debugging, but these "opinions" you think it has are just a ghost in the words. > This would help in the dumb poem about trump example, as the rules chatgpt has about talking about trump or biden would have to be there for everyone to see. Even if googled for something and found no poems about it ChatGPT would still be able to write you one. It's not an issue of volume of training data and purely of output filtering.