6 ms·

I wonder if there can be more ephemeral union like entities that help the labor market. I'd love to see a community that helps people organize strikes and coord

I wonder if there can be more ephemeral union like entities that help the labor market. I'd love to see a community that helps people organize strikes and coordinate between multiple companies. Strikes are one of the strongest tools a union has, but you don't need a union to organize them. It feels like we have the technology to create ad-hoc unions and support general labor advocacy and direct action without the need for a formal union (not saying they are necessarily bad).

pasquinelli 4y ago
wildcat strikes, which you're describing, are illegal in the united states.
- wootland 4y ago
  Wildcat strikes aren't illegal if you're not in a union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_strike_action#Legality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_strike_action#Legality
  - unreal37 4y ago
    It's not a wildcat strike if you're not in a union. It's just refusing to show up to work.
    - kevviiinn 4y ago
      But if it's an organized effort in order to get management to do something, it is a strike
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    Not sure why you think that, here's the first line from your source >Wildcat strikes have been considered illegal in the United States since 1935 Sounds to me like the only time it becomes legal is if you were in a union and then leave while still employed at the same place
    - wootland 4y ago
      From the article: > Nevertheless, US workers can formally request that the National Labor Relations Board end their association with their labor union if they feel that the union is not adequately representing their interests. At this point, any strike action taken by the workers may be termed a wildcat strike, but there is no illegality involved, as there is no longer a conflict between sections 7 and 9(a) of the NLRA.
      - kevviiinn 4y ago
        That is described by the last part of my comment, it is only legal under a very specific circumstance and not generally
        wootland 4y ago
        That's not stated in the Wikipedia post or the National Labor Relations Act: https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/key-reference-materials/national-labor-relations-act https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/key-reference-materials/nation...
        kevviiinn 4y ago
        It's literally what your reply to my first comment is stating What do you think "formally request to end their association with their labor union" means? >formally request that the National Labor Relations Board end their association with their labor union if they feel that the union is not adequately representing their interests >At this point, any strike action taken by the workers may be termed a wildcat strike, but there is no illegality involved Which is stated in wikipedia after: >Wildcat strikes have been considered illegal in the United States since 1935 >Under the 1935 National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), federal courts have held that wildcat strikes are illegal and that employers may fire workers participating in them.
        wootland 4y ago
        Your interpretation doesn't hold. All it's saying is that you have to not be affiliated with a union, then a wildcat strike is legal ("no illegality involved").
  - juujian 4y ago
    And even if they were illegal, there are so many creative ways to stage action that do not technically constitute a strike.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Only because the govt promised to protect unions. They’re not really keeping their side of the promise.
rodgerd 4y ago
> I'd love to see a community that helps people organize strikes and coordinate between multiple companies. Unfortunately solidarity strikes were so successful for workers for much of the 20th century, they were criminalised in parts of the English-speaking world from the 80s onward.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
UtopiaPunk 4y ago
There are exceptions, but strikes are usually the result of an organized group of workers exhausting other bargaining options. Strikes are the result of very intentional, long periods of organizing. They (usually) don't happen all of a sudden. Barring something egregious, strikes are hard to pull off and requires a lot of buy in. The most successful way to accomplish this level of organizing is forming a union.
- chasd00 4y ago
  strikes, or the credible threat of a strike, is the only power a union has. well except for the dues paid but those usually just go to a handful of pockets.
thylacine222 4y ago
Every few years someone thinks that they have a new plan to revolutionize labor organizing, usually involving some sort of app that will somehow replace the work necessary to organize a union, and they are always wrong. Building a union that's strike-ready requires a lot of on the ground work that you simply cannot automate.
- wootland 4y ago
  Would you say that things like Blind or Levels.fyi have had an impact on labor organization? I would argue that they have.
  - thylacine222 4y ago
    I certainly think they're emblematic of changes in attitudes, but I think the direction of causation is not so clear.
chernevik 4y ago
Unions are needed to provide the social structure to suppress worker dissent against a strike and to label all willing to work on terms offered as "scabs". "Union solidarity" is an important cover story for a host of behaviors that would otherwise be simply shocking.

pasquinelli 4y ago

wildcat strikes, which you're describing, are illegal in the united states.

wootland 4y ago
Wildcat strikes aren't illegal if you're not in a union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_strike_action#Legality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_strike_action#Legality
- unreal37 4y ago
  It's not a wildcat strike if you're not in a union. It's just refusing to show up to work.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    But if it's an organized effort in order to get management to do something, it is a strike
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Not sure why you think that, here's the first line from your source >Wildcat strikes have been considered illegal in the United States since 1935 Sounds to me like the only time it becomes legal is if you were in a union and then leave while still employed at the same place
  - wootland 4y ago
    From the article: > Nevertheless, US workers can formally request that the National Labor Relations Board end their association with their labor union if they feel that the union is not adequately representing their interests. At this point, any strike action taken by the workers may be termed a wildcat strike, but there is no illegality involved, as there is no longer a conflict between sections 7 and 9(a) of the NLRA.
    - kevviiinn 4y ago
      That is described by the last part of my comment, it is only legal under a very specific circumstance and not generally
      - wootland 4y ago
        That's not stated in the Wikipedia post or the National Labor Relations Act: https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/key-reference-materials/national-labor-relations-act https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/key-reference-materials/nation...
        kevviiinn 4y ago
        It's literally what your reply to my first comment is stating What do you think "formally request to end their association with their labor union" means? >formally request that the National Labor Relations Board end their association with their labor union if they feel that the union is not adequately representing their interests >At this point, any strike action taken by the workers may be termed a wildcat strike, but there is no illegality involved Which is stated in wikipedia after: >Wildcat strikes have been considered illegal in the United States since 1935 >Under the 1935 National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), federal courts have held that wildcat strikes are illegal and that employers may fire workers participating in them.
        wootland 4y ago
        Your interpretation doesn't hold. All it's saying is that you have to not be affiliated with a union, then a wildcat strike is legal ("no illegality involved").
- juujian 4y ago
  And even if they were illegal, there are so many creative ways to stage action that do not technically constitute a strike.
aaomidi 4y ago
Only because the govt promised to protect unions. They’re not really keeping their side of the promise.

rodgerd 4y ago

> I'd love to see a community that helps people organize strikes and coordinate between multiple companies. Unfortunately solidarity strikes were so successful for workers for much of the 20th century, they were criminalised in parts of the English-speaking world from the 80s onward.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

UtopiaPunk 4y ago

There are exceptions, but strikes are usually the result of an organized group of workers exhausting other bargaining options. Strikes are the result of very intentional, long periods of organizing. They (usually) don't happen all of a sudden. Barring something egregious, strikes are hard to pull off and requires a lot of buy in. The most successful way to accomplish this level of organizing is forming a union.

chasd00 4y ago
strikes, or the credible threat of a strike, is the only power a union has. well except for the dues paid but those usually just go to a handful of pockets.

thylacine222 4y ago

Every few years someone thinks that they have a new plan to revolutionize labor organizing, usually involving some sort of app that will somehow replace the work necessary to organize a union, and they are always wrong. Building a union that's strike-ready requires a lot of on the ground work that you simply cannot automate.

wootland 4y ago
Would you say that things like Blind or Levels.fyi have had an impact on labor organization? I would argue that they have.
- thylacine222 4y ago
  I certainly think they're emblematic of changes in attitudes, but I think the direction of causation is not so clear.

chernevik 4y ago

Unions are needed to provide the social structure to suppress worker dissent against a strike and to label all willing to work on terms offered as "scabs". "Union solidarity" is an important cover story for a host of behaviors that would otherwise be simply shocking.