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The Strongest Evidence yet That an Animal Started the Pandemic

37 points by coloneltcb 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lockhouse 4y ago
This isn't in conflict with it escaping from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. It is entirely possible that a virus that originated in an animal was being studied there and escaped lab containment. Unfortunately due to the obstruction by the CCP we'll probably never know the real story.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  That seems extremely unlikely, as well as just logically unnecessary. It's enough for it to be just one or the other.
  - lockhouse 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity... Looks like it’s within the realm of possibility to me. I think it’s quite the coincidence that COVID first appeared in the city with a lab that specializes in studying SARS family coronaviruses. This coincidence seems extremely unlikely.
    - crazygringo 4y ago
      But the idea that it would escape from that to a wet market specifically doesn't make much sense. Wet markets bring in animals from far away, not from across town. I'm not discounting the lab leak hypothesis. I'm just saying it's unlikely it went from the lab to humans via the wet market. In other words, stronger evidence for the wet market does make the lab leak less likely, in terms of probabilities.
      - DebtDeflation 4y ago
        Proponents of the lab leak hypothesis aren't arguing that the wet market was buying infected animals from the lab, but rather that a lab employee was likely accidentally infected in the lab and then spread it to others when they stopped by the wet market. It's also possible that they spread it to others at another nearby location and then it spread from there to the wet market. Given the timing, the wet market looks like the location of an early superspreader event rather than the actual origin.
DebtDeflation 4y ago
The samples mentioned in the article were taken in January 2020. The first confirmed case in humans was in November 2019. This likely proves that raccoon dogs were infected early on, but it doesn't prove they were the original source of the virus.
iudqnolq 4y ago
What a shock, animal DNA samples were found in an animal market
coding123 4y ago
While I don't disagree that this animal could be involved, the thing I find disingenuous is that it came out of fucking no where 3 years later. If there had been a long thread about this, maybe. But there's just nothing. Also the media outlets picked this up so fast almost like "see I told you so" which makes me less believe this.
- rfoo 4y ago
  > the thing I find disingenuous is that it came out of fucking no where 3 years later That's how these things happen, at least to the original SARS. Okay, besides killing all masked palm civets for "idk maybe" about 3 months into pandemic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS#Origin_and_animal_vectors:~:text=In%202005%2C%20two%20studies%20identified%20a%20number%20of%20SARS%2Dlike%20coronaviruses%20in%20Chinese%20bats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS#Origin_and_animal_vectors... Jumping the gun on masked palm civets, then raccoon dogs, then confusion, then 2 years later all at a sudden bat. And 12 years later the actual bat shit. > Also the media outlets picked this up so fast TBH I don't see this discussed anywhere else.

37 points by coloneltcb 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

This isn't in conflict with it escaping from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. It is entirely possible that a virus that originated in an animal was being studied there and escaped lab containment. Unfortunately due to the obstruction by the CCP we'll probably never know the real story.

crazygringo 4y ago
That seems extremely unlikely, as well as just logically unnecessary. It's enough for it to be just one or the other.
- lockhouse 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity... Looks like it’s within the realm of possibility to me. I think it’s quite the coincidence that COVID first appeared in the city with a lab that specializes in studying SARS family coronaviruses. This coincidence seems extremely unlikely.
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    But the idea that it would escape from that to a wet market specifically doesn't make much sense. Wet markets bring in animals from far away, not from across town. I'm not discounting the lab leak hypothesis. I'm just saying it's unlikely it went from the lab to humans via the wet market. In other words, stronger evidence for the wet market does make the lab leak less likely, in terms of probabilities.
    - DebtDeflation 4y ago
      Proponents of the lab leak hypothesis aren't arguing that the wet market was buying infected animals from the lab, but rather that a lab employee was likely accidentally infected in the lab and then spread it to others when they stopped by the wet market. It's also possible that they spread it to others at another nearby location and then it spread from there to the wet market. Given the timing, the wet market looks like the location of an early superspreader event rather than the actual origin.

DebtDeflation 4y ago

The samples mentioned in the article were taken in January 2020. The first confirmed case in humans was in November 2019. This likely proves that raccoon dogs were infected early on, but it doesn't prove they were the original source of the virus.

iudqnolq 4y ago

What a shock, animal DNA samples were found in an animal market

coding123 4y ago

While I don't disagree that this animal could be involved, the thing I find disingenuous is that it came out of fucking no where 3 years later. If there had been a long thread about this, maybe. But there's just nothing. Also the media outlets picked this up so fast almost like "see I told you so" which makes me less believe this.

rfoo 4y ago
> the thing I find disingenuous is that it came out of fucking no where 3 years later That's how these things happen, at least to the original SARS. Okay, besides killing all masked palm civets for "idk maybe" about 3 months into pandemic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS#Origin_and_animal_vectors:~:text=In%202005%2C%20two%20studies%20identified%20a%20number%20of%20SARS%2Dlike%20coronaviruses%20in%20Chinese%20bats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS#Origin_and_animal_vectors... Jumping the gun on masked palm civets, then raccoon dogs, then confusion, then 2 years later all at a sudden bat. And 12 years later the actual bat shit. > Also the media outlets picked this up so fast TBH I don't see this discussed anywhere else.