6 ms·

Exactly ! I remember the original email mentioned deletion and now they say "we never said that". Time to get rid of Docker in our world.

mekster 4y ago
With what?
- notbuyingit 4y ago
  If you want actual reproducable, actual portable software, Nix. Otherwise there are countless other OCI runtimes, cri-o, containers, etc. Kubernetes doesn't even use Docker. What a thing, docker. I can't get over the staying power it has had despite... Everything.
  - mekster 4y ago
    How do I run the ecosystem the docker already has with nix alone? It's not just the runtime.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - gcoakes 4y ago
      I'm not certain what "ecosystem" means in this context, but you can build docker images using Nix. It's actually pretty cool because the image only contains the runtime dependencies of whatever you throw in the container. No package manager or build system is included. I've only tinkered with Nix, nothing in my professional life, so YMMV.
    - ParetoOptimal 4y ago
      I'm super interested in the ecosystem you mean here. I'm assuming that you mean ecosystem around images like kubernetes, ECS, etc like the other commenter guessed? If so, I think Nix being able to create docker images addresses that specific concern.
      - cuu508 4y ago
        Can nix run images created with docker?
        ParetoOptimal 4y ago
        Yes. See https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images Or do you mean run as in "use docker image(s) within a nix expression". Like if you have a webapp with a nix devshell but want to start the docker postgres container for development? You can do that too, yes.
      - mekster 4y ago
        I can easily install many apps hosted at the Docker hub but how would I achieve that without Docker hub, unless everyone starts hosting things elsewhere but that'll take a good while assuming the community's consensus is to ditch Docker altogether.
        ParetoOptimal 4y ago
        > I can easily install many apps hosted at the Docker hub but how would I achieve that without Docker hub, I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
- mort96 4y ago
  Podman is pretty good, and more or less a drop-in replacement.
  - hashtag-til 4y ago
    Yep, already wrote an internal guide for my whole team to move away from docker into podman+quay.io by the end of next week. Works like a charm on our macbooks, very neat. Even if we need to pay, I’m looking for alternatives not Docker Inc. - There is only so much you can take. I don’t want to rely on them anymore.
    - halostatue 4y ago
      Any chance of seeing a version of that guide outside of your organization?
- gpm 4y ago
  Someone on lobste.rs mentioned quay.io (maintained by redhat) as an alternative to dockerhub. Anyone have any experience with it?
  - sofixa 4y ago
    It started as a CoreOS project and for a long time it was the only ebterprisey registry, and it included security scanning. Had some availability issues some time ago, but AFAIK today it's pretty good.
    - bravetraveler 4y ago
      The software is nice, if looking to run your own - I'd recommend it over the typical Docker-provided incantation Way more enterprise appropriate, for example - granular control on caches
  - bigiain 4y ago
    Given the CentOS shit, I'm not convinced jumping from Docker Inc to RedHat is appropriately mitigating the risk of a corporate rug pull once they've decided its time for the next step in their enshittification plan...
sitzkrieg 4y ago
im looking forward to hipster posts about compiling and running your stack directly on a machine. probably one, and it'll be faster. that'll be great
- Kwpolska 4y ago
  Nah, Docker/containers are here to stay. But Docker, Inc. isn’t.
- bigiain 4y ago
  No no no, you build your stack, transpile it to WASM, and run it on your user's phones! WebRTC to run a distributed shared database across every phone that's not behind NAT! No servers. No databases. No electricity bills. Your backend hardware fleet automatically updates itself every couple of years _and pays_ for it itself!
- julianlam 4y ago
  Wait, that's hipster now? Isn't that a graybeard thing?
themitigating 4y ago
If you run a company wouldn't it be cheaper to just pay. This can't be worth the trouble changing everything
- bigiain 4y ago
  Sure. This is just a big "fuck you" to non company supported open source projects, as it turns out even ones labelled "sponsored css" on Docker Inc's own website. Which are all clearly insignificant and unimportant, dumb little command line utilities and libraries like, say, curl... https://github.com/docker/hub-feedback/issues/2314#issuecomment-1471905927 https://github.com/docker/hub-feedback/issues/2314#issuecomm...
  - julianlam 4y ago
    Hi, ah... perhaps I'm an idiot for asking, but why does a near-ubiquitous system utility like curl need to be installed via a container? Is it not available on something like Alpine... and if so, then maybe it should be? It's like saying I have to install `vi` via Docker... please don't tell me vim has a Docker hub repo too...
hgsgm 4y ago
Please share a copy of that email.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Docker is sunsetting Free Team organizations Free Team organizations are a legacy subscription tier that no longer exists. This tier included many of the same features, rates, and functionality as a paid Docker Team subscription. After reviewing the list of accounts that are members of legacy Free Team organizations, we’ve identified yours as potentially being one of them. If you own a legacy Free Team organization, access to paid features — including private repositories — will be suspended on April 14, 2023 (11:59 pm UTC). Upgrade your subscription before April 14, 2023 to continue accessing your organization. If you don’t upgrade to a paid subscription, Docker will retain your organization data for 30 days, after which it will be subject to deletion. During that time, you will maintain access to any images in your public repositories, though rate limitations will apply. At any point during the 30-day period, you can restore access to your organization account if you upgrade to a paid subscription. Visit our FAQ [1] for more information. [1] https://web.docker.com/rs/790-SSB-375/images/privatereposfaq.pdf https://web.docker.com/rs/790-SSB-375/images/privatereposfaq...
  - saurik 4y ago
    This is the exact quote that was already up-thread of here, and they absolutely are not claiming they "never said that"; instead, they are clarifying that "organization data" does not include "public images", and while that's confusing, I can appreciate why they didn't think it would be and--lo and behold--they are publicly apologizing for being so confusing and taking the hit for having done so.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - bigiain 4y ago
      Its the very next sentence after that one that they are claiming has been practically universally "misunderstood". "If you don’t upgrade to a paid subscription, Docker will retain your organization data for 30 days, after which it will be subject to deletion. During that time, you will maintain access to any images in your public repositories, though rate limitations will apply." The cynical devil on my left shoulder is telling me "Some smartass in an emergency meeting noted the ambiguity in that second sentence, and suggested lets just claim that 'During that time you will maintain access to any images' did not actually mean it's obvious implication that 'after that time you will no linger have access to any images' and this is all just a big misunderstanding" - and that how we ended up with this new "clarification". The even more cynical devil on my right shoulder is telling me some actively evil asshole intentionally wrote that ambiguous sentence to give themselves a 'get out of jail card' in case complaints went viral...

mekster 4y ago

With what?

notbuyingit 4y ago
If you want actual reproducable, actual portable software, Nix. Otherwise there are countless other OCI runtimes, cri-o, containers, etc. Kubernetes doesn't even use Docker. What a thing, docker. I can't get over the staying power it has had despite... Everything.
- mekster 4y ago
  How do I run the ecosystem the docker already has with nix alone? It's not just the runtime.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - gcoakes 4y ago
    I'm not certain what "ecosystem" means in this context, but you can build docker images using Nix. It's actually pretty cool because the image only contains the runtime dependencies of whatever you throw in the container. No package manager or build system is included. I've only tinkered with Nix, nothing in my professional life, so YMMV.
  - ParetoOptimal 4y ago
    I'm super interested in the ecosystem you mean here. I'm assuming that you mean ecosystem around images like kubernetes, ECS, etc like the other commenter guessed? If so, I think Nix being able to create docker images addresses that specific concern.
    - cuu508 4y ago
      Can nix run images created with docker?
      - ParetoOptimal 4y ago
        Yes. See https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images https://nix.dev/tutorials/building-and-running-docker-images Or do you mean run as in "use docker image(s) within a nix expression". Like if you have a webapp with a nix devshell but want to start the docker postgres container for development? You can do that too, yes.
    - mekster 4y ago
      I can easily install many apps hosted at the Docker hub but how would I achieve that without Docker hub, unless everyone starts hosting things elsewhere but that'll take a good while assuming the community's consensus is to ditch Docker altogether.
      - ParetoOptimal 4y ago
        > I can easily install many apps hosted at the Docker hub but how would I achieve that without Docker hub, I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
mort96 4y ago
Podman is pretty good, and more or less a drop-in replacement.
- hashtag-til 4y ago
  Yep, already wrote an internal guide for my whole team to move away from docker into podman+quay.io by the end of next week. Works like a charm on our macbooks, very neat. Even if we need to pay, I’m looking for alternatives not Docker Inc. - There is only so much you can take. I don’t want to rely on them anymore.
  - halostatue 4y ago
    Any chance of seeing a version of that guide outside of your organization?
gpm 4y ago
Someone on lobste.rs mentioned quay.io (maintained by redhat) as an alternative to dockerhub. Anyone have any experience with it?
- sofixa 4y ago
  It started as a CoreOS project and for a long time it was the only ebterprisey registry, and it included security scanning. Had some availability issues some time ago, but AFAIK today it's pretty good.
  - bravetraveler 4y ago
    The software is nice, if looking to run your own - I'd recommend it over the typical Docker-provided incantation Way more enterprise appropriate, for example - granular control on caches
- bigiain 4y ago
  Given the CentOS shit, I'm not convinced jumping from Docker Inc to RedHat is appropriately mitigating the risk of a corporate rug pull once they've decided its time for the next step in their enshittification plan...

sitzkrieg 4y ago

im looking forward to hipster posts about compiling and running your stack directly on a machine. probably one, and it'll be faster. that'll be great

Kwpolska 4y ago
Nah, Docker/containers are here to stay. But Docker, Inc. isn’t.
bigiain 4y ago
No no no, you build your stack, transpile it to WASM, and run it on your user's phones! WebRTC to run a distributed shared database across every phone that's not behind NAT! No servers. No databases. No electricity bills. Your backend hardware fleet automatically updates itself every couple of years _and pays_ for it itself!
julianlam 4y ago
Wait, that's hipster now? Isn't that a graybeard thing?

themitigating 4y ago

If you run a company wouldn't it be cheaper to just pay. This can't be worth the trouble changing everything

bigiain 4y ago
Sure. This is just a big "fuck you" to non company supported open source projects, as it turns out even ones labelled "sponsored css" on Docker Inc's own website. Which are all clearly insignificant and unimportant, dumb little command line utilities and libraries like, say, curl... https://github.com/docker/hub-feedback/issues/2314#issuecomment-1471905927 https://github.com/docker/hub-feedback/issues/2314#issuecomm...
- julianlam 4y ago
  Hi, ah... perhaps I'm an idiot for asking, but why does a near-ubiquitous system utility like curl need to be installed via a container? Is it not available on something like Alpine... and if so, then maybe it should be? It's like saying I have to install `vi` via Docker... please don't tell me vim has a Docker hub repo too...

hgsgm 4y ago

Please share a copy of that email.

Symbiote 4y ago
Docker is sunsetting Free Team organizations Free Team organizations are a legacy subscription tier that no longer exists. This tier included many of the same features, rates, and functionality as a paid Docker Team subscription. After reviewing the list of accounts that are members of legacy Free Team organizations, we’ve identified yours as potentially being one of them. If you own a legacy Free Team organization, access to paid features — including private repositories — will be suspended on April 14, 2023 (11:59 pm UTC). Upgrade your subscription before April 14, 2023 to continue accessing your organization. If you don’t upgrade to a paid subscription, Docker will retain your organization data for 30 days, after which it will be subject to deletion. During that time, you will maintain access to any images in your public repositories, though rate limitations will apply. At any point during the 30-day period, you can restore access to your organization account if you upgrade to a paid subscription. Visit our FAQ [1] for more information. [1] https://web.docker.com/rs/790-SSB-375/images/privatereposfaq.pdf https://web.docker.com/rs/790-SSB-375/images/privatereposfaq...
- saurik 4y ago
  This is the exact quote that was already up-thread of here, and they absolutely are not claiming they "never said that"; instead, they are clarifying that "organization data" does not include "public images", and while that's confusing, I can appreciate why they didn't think it would be and--lo and behold--they are publicly apologizing for being so confusing and taking the hit for having done so.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bigiain 4y ago
    Its the very next sentence after that one that they are claiming has been practically universally "misunderstood". "If you don’t upgrade to a paid subscription, Docker will retain your organization data for 30 days, after which it will be subject to deletion. During that time, you will maintain access to any images in your public repositories, though rate limitations will apply." The cynical devil on my left shoulder is telling me "Some smartass in an emergency meeting noted the ambiguity in that second sentence, and suggested lets just claim that 'During that time you will maintain access to any images' did not actually mean it's obvious implication that 'after that time you will no linger have access to any images' and this is all just a big misunderstanding" - and that how we ended up with this new "clarification". The even more cynical devil on my right shoulder is telling me some actively evil asshole intentionally wrote that ambiguous sentence to give themselves a 'get out of jail card' in case complaints went viral...