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How is this not constructive dismissal? If you signed a contract stating that you work remotely, does Amazon have the power to unilaterally change that?

jldugger 4y ago
I suspect it is, but done in such a way as to avoid some of the larger lawsuits from layoffs. Sure you can enjoy the peanuts unemployment gives you by claiming it, but I imagine its somewhat harder to file a discrimination claim? edit: and i doubt amazon made any promises about remote work
ralph84 4y ago
In at-will employment the terms of employment can be changed at any time. As long as the terms weren’t changed because of membership in a protected class it’s completely legal in the US.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Unless you have a contract. Contracts cannot be unilaterally changed.
  - eftychis 4y ago
    Employers unfortunately think otherwise. From experience when the time comes, most people cower and accept the new status quo. Again from unfortunate experience. Feel free to take it as an anecdotal point. Employers do it because it works and employees don't have the knowledge or means to protect their rights.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      Well, it doesn't matter what the employers think. It matters what the court thinks. Of course, it takes time and effort to sue and I imagine a lot of people would just let it go.
- zamalek 4y ago
  Not all states are at-will for what it's worth.
  - jedberg 4y ago
    While you are technically correct, it's not really relevant. There is one state that isn't at-will (Montana) and as far as I know there aren't a lot of people that work there in tech.
RC_ITR 4y ago
>How is this not constructive dismissal Companies move offices all the time and require you to go to that new office (even if it's inconvenient for your commute/you have to move cities).
- WJW 4y ago
  That is literally grounds for constructive dismissal though. See Reynolds v. Innopac Inc., 1998 for example, a change in location of work that required a substantially greater travel time would change the way the employee carried out job duties. You have the right to refuse that as an employee.
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    Oh, sorry, classic HN US-centrism (though TBF, Amazon is primarily a US company). Sure, in Canada it maybe different.
CydeWeys 4y ago
Even if it is constructive dismissal, so what? Amazon won't owe you severance or anything like that. So you'd get some money from your state's unemployment office and that's about it.
- patmcc 4y ago
  This will depend a lot on your contract (if you have one) and your local employment laws. If Amazon tries this with. workers in Vancouver (Canada), for example, severance would likely be required.
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    Right, well in the US, where Amazon has the plurality of its global workforce (and quite possibly majority of its highly compensated work force), severance is not required.
markemer 4y ago
It is, but sadly that's not illegal in the US.

jldugger 4y ago

I suspect it is, but done in such a way as to avoid some of the larger lawsuits from layoffs. Sure you can enjoy the peanuts unemployment gives you by claiming it, but I imagine its somewhat harder to file a discrimination claim? edit: and i doubt amazon made any promises about remote work

ralph84 4y ago

In at-will employment the terms of employment can be changed at any time. As long as the terms weren’t changed because of membership in a protected class it’s completely legal in the US.

JohnFen 4y ago
Unless you have a contract. Contracts cannot be unilaterally changed.
- eftychis 4y ago
  Employers unfortunately think otherwise. From experience when the time comes, most people cower and accept the new status quo. Again from unfortunate experience. Feel free to take it as an anecdotal point. Employers do it because it works and employees don't have the knowledge or means to protect their rights.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Well, it doesn't matter what the employers think. It matters what the court thinks. Of course, it takes time and effort to sue and I imagine a lot of people would just let it go.
zamalek 4y ago
Not all states are at-will for what it's worth.
- jedberg 4y ago
  While you are technically correct, it's not really relevant. There is one state that isn't at-will (Montana) and as far as I know there aren't a lot of people that work there in tech.

RC_ITR 4y ago

>How is this not constructive dismissal Companies move offices all the time and require you to go to that new office (even if it's inconvenient for your commute/you have to move cities).

WJW 4y ago
That is literally grounds for constructive dismissal though. See Reynolds v. Innopac Inc., 1998 for example, a change in location of work that required a substantially greater travel time would change the way the employee carried out job duties. You have the right to refuse that as an employee.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  Oh, sorry, classic HN US-centrism (though TBF, Amazon is primarily a US company). Sure, in Canada it maybe different.

CydeWeys 4y ago

Even if it is constructive dismissal, so what? Amazon won't owe you severance or anything like that. So you'd get some money from your state's unemployment office and that's about it.

patmcc 4y ago
This will depend a lot on your contract (if you have one) and your local employment laws. If Amazon tries this with. workers in Vancouver (Canada), for example, severance would likely be required.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  Right, well in the US, where Amazon has the plurality of its global workforce (and quite possibly majority of its highly compensated work force), severance is not required.

markemer 4y ago

It is, but sadly that's not illegal in the US.