11 ms·

"That the agricultural sector needs to be downsized" What about the people abroad that depend on Dutch-produced food? Export of food isn't a frivolous activity

"That the agricultural sector needs to be downsized" What about the people abroad that depend on Dutch-produced food? Export of food isn't a frivolous activity, but a need; we have 8 billion humans on this planet already and many live in arid or otherwise agriculture-unfriendly regions.

danieldevries 4y ago
And you think Holland is an agricultural friendly region? You have clearly never seen the amount of glass houses from a satellite photo of Holland. They cover a vast area! Polluting farms will get downsized in Holland over time.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  Compared to many other places of the world, yes, it is, absolutely. You have both good soil and water. Yes, Ukraine is probably somewhat better in this regard, but it is also poor and at war. Plus Dutch know-how in agriculture is outstanding. From what I know from Czech farmers, Dutch piglets etc. are really the best in the world.
  - danieldevries 4y ago
    I don't deny we know how to raise delicious veal or piglets. But it's stipulated in EU law that we have to downsize this sector eventually. It's not a popular move at all, and it seems pointless with regards to China or India. Still it needs to happen in the long run.
    - inglor_cz 4y ago
      AFAIK it is not just about taste, but about the fact that Dutch animals gain the most weight per fodder consumed - which is actually pretty nature-friendly.
peterashford 4y ago
Dairy is a luxury food, not a staple. No-one is going to starve if they can't get Dutch cheese
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  You make it sound as if the real intent behind the law was to push veganism on an unwilling population, bypassing normal democratic mechanism. Cheese is an excellent source of proteins and fat, eating less of it and more of processed and conserved rice/wheat won't probably make you healthier.
  - peterashford 4y ago
    Uh, no. I love cheese. That's a weird take
- Gud 4y ago
  Dutch cheese is delicious. What do you propose to replace it with?
mantas 4y ago
In many cases Dutch-produced food out-prices locally produced food. Even with transport costs. On one hand, you could say cheaper food is nice. On the other hand, employing local people to keep money in local economy to produce slightly more expensive food is better in the long term...
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  Will the difference in costs stay slight? Possibly not, if the locals are protected by sufficiently high import duties that they aren't forced to innovate. We might yet see a similar problem in the space industry. European space industry is likely to fall far behind SpaceX when it comes to rocket costs and especially capabilities, but France won't surrender its independent access to space and will likely subsidize the already-obsolete Ariane models far into the future.
  - mantas 4y ago
    No import duties inside EU. Here in north-east our farmers have a hard time competing with Holland farmers. Mostly because our farms still didn’t catch up after Soviet era. Differentiated EU subsidies discriminating East don’t help either. I’m happy to pay extra to support local farms. Hopefully playing field will level out at some point.

danieldevries 4y ago

And you think Holland is an agricultural friendly region? You have clearly never seen the amount of glass houses from a satellite photo of Holland. They cover a vast area! Polluting farms will get downsized in Holland over time.

inglor_cz 4y ago
Compared to many other places of the world, yes, it is, absolutely. You have both good soil and water. Yes, Ukraine is probably somewhat better in this regard, but it is also poor and at war. Plus Dutch know-how in agriculture is outstanding. From what I know from Czech farmers, Dutch piglets etc. are really the best in the world.
- danieldevries 4y ago
  I don't deny we know how to raise delicious veal or piglets. But it's stipulated in EU law that we have to downsize this sector eventually. It's not a popular move at all, and it seems pointless with regards to China or India. Still it needs to happen in the long run.
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    AFAIK it is not just about taste, but about the fact that Dutch animals gain the most weight per fodder consumed - which is actually pretty nature-friendly.

peterashford 4y ago

Dairy is a luxury food, not a staple. No-one is going to starve if they can't get Dutch cheese

inglor_cz 4y ago
You make it sound as if the real intent behind the law was to push veganism on an unwilling population, bypassing normal democratic mechanism. Cheese is an excellent source of proteins and fat, eating less of it and more of processed and conserved rice/wheat won't probably make you healthier.
- peterashford 4y ago
  Uh, no. I love cheese. That's a weird take
Gud 4y ago
Dutch cheese is delicious. What do you propose to replace it with?

mantas 4y ago

In many cases Dutch-produced food out-prices locally produced food. Even with transport costs. On one hand, you could say cheaper food is nice. On the other hand, employing local people to keep money in local economy to produce slightly more expensive food is better in the long term...

inglor_cz 4y ago
Will the difference in costs stay slight? Possibly not, if the locals are protected by sufficiently high import duties that they aren't forced to innovate. We might yet see a similar problem in the space industry. European space industry is likely to fall far behind SpaceX when it comes to rocket costs and especially capabilities, but France won't surrender its independent access to space and will likely subsidize the already-obsolete Ariane models far into the future.
- mantas 4y ago
  No import duties inside EU. Here in north-east our farmers have a hard time competing with Holland farmers. Mostly because our farms still didn’t catch up after Soviet era. Differentiated EU subsidies discriminating East don’t help either. I’m happy to pay extra to support local farms. Hopefully playing field will level out at some point.