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Tell me, if React is so great, why isn't Draft.js blowing ProseMirror out of the water? And why aren't difficult parts of VSCode written with it? I think a goo

Tell me, if React is so great, why isn't Draft.js blowing ProseMirror out of the water? And why aren't difficult parts of VSCode written with it? I think a good example of where React sits is Deno. The devs who are working on Deno don't seem to have much interest in React, but they are pushing a React framework, Fresh, to make it popular with regular devs. They see the popularity of React and not those who are frustrated with it. One thing is how much typical React code relies on a build step and a bunch of Provider objects. CSS Variables can help make components customizable without having to do CSS in JS. I think Web Components, maybe with Lit or Svelte, are making more sense for beginning devs. With those you don't have to worry that you might need to work on non-react code sometime.

chatmasta 4y ago
> I think Web Components, maybe with Lit or Svelte, are making more sense for beginning dev Beginner devs want to get a job, so they should probably spend their time learning the framework that dominates the ecosystem. Lit and Svelte are cool, but I don't think they're a great target for a first time web developer. Svelte maybe. But definitely not Lit - it's a relatively new library and a moving target without a lot of adoption, meaning there is a sparse ecosystem to fall back on, and you'll need to fill in a lot of gaps yourself (both in terms of libraries for common functionality, and docs/stackoverflow answers for telling you how to do things). Experienced devs can read the source and official docs to figure it out, but newbies need more hand holding.
- benatkin 4y ago
  > Beginner devs want to get a job Yeah, that's the point I'm making about Deno. If Deno's own devs avoid anything similar to React hooks except when they're trying to appeal to the beginning devs, perhaps it would be smart for beginning devs to try to do as the senior devs do, not as they say? The ecosystem of Lit is the web, which has a lot of great stuff like MDN. It lets you simply use what you learn there. No redirection, like React's onChange translating into the input event.
  - chatmasta 4y ago
    > The ecosystem of Lit is the web, which has a lot of great stuff like MDN I agree with this, and I mostly empathize with the purity aesthetic that comes with it. But I think in practice, you need to do a lot of work for common operations that might have entire libraries dedicated to them in React. If you're a pro developer obsessed with purism, you probably wouldn't use those libraries anyway. But newbies don't have time to worry about re-inventing the wheel (or at least, we shouldn't encourage them to do that, since it will probably be a pretty shitty wheel). All that said, I absolutely love Deno, and I think we should encourage new developers to use it, especially since it sidesteps the need for build steps in many cases.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    > ... avoid anything similar to React hooks ... Really? https://fresh.deno.dev/docs/getting-started/adding-interactivity https://fresh.deno.dev/docs/getting-started/adding-interacti...
tracker1 4y ago
Draft.js is now archived, and not being maintained. That can be for a number of reasons. When React first came out, it was several years before it really started to pick up steam. I think the Angular shift from v1 to v2 helped out React a lot, along with create-react-app scripts. Deno is its' own beast, that I really appreciate. And Fresh isn't really a displacement of React, it's their spin on something like Next.js, and in some ways a lot nicer even. Still using JSX. Web Components are pretty neat, and I see a lot of things moving towards that direction... I also find Lit, Svelte and others interesting. All of that said, popularity doesn't always mean best, or align with it. Timing, interest and "good enough" account for a lot. I happen to like the React way of doing things with function based components. I know a lot of the transition logic is PFM'd away, but it's fine for most. I've also been following Rust, Yew and Tauri... doesn't mean I'm ready to completely jump ship. React has definite advantages when working on larger projects, the ecosystem and popularity are only parts of that. I think React + Redux + MUI are a really great combination for building applications against. In the end, it really depends on what you are making, what you are familiar with and what "feels right." I absolutely hate(d) angular 1 and 2+ with a passion... I just don't like the feel of it. React + Redux is much closer to how I would build simulation logic for training/learning well before React existed. And MUI is frankly a great component library. I still keep an eye on what's out there and what's up and coming.

chatmasta 4y ago

> I think Web Components, maybe with Lit or Svelte, are making more sense for beginning dev Beginner devs want to get a job, so they should probably spend their time learning the framework that dominates the ecosystem. Lit and Svelte are cool, but I don't think they're a great target for a first time web developer. Svelte maybe. But definitely not Lit - it's a relatively new library and a moving target without a lot of adoption, meaning there is a sparse ecosystem to fall back on, and you'll need to fill in a lot of gaps yourself (both in terms of libraries for common functionality, and docs/stackoverflow answers for telling you how to do things). Experienced devs can read the source and official docs to figure it out, but newbies need more hand holding.

benatkin 4y ago
> Beginner devs want to get a job Yeah, that's the point I'm making about Deno. If Deno's own devs avoid anything similar to React hooks except when they're trying to appeal to the beginning devs, perhaps it would be smart for beginning devs to try to do as the senior devs do, not as they say? The ecosystem of Lit is the web, which has a lot of great stuff like MDN. It lets you simply use what you learn there. No redirection, like React's onChange translating into the input event.
- chatmasta 4y ago
  > The ecosystem of Lit is the web, which has a lot of great stuff like MDN I agree with this, and I mostly empathize with the purity aesthetic that comes with it. But I think in practice, you need to do a lot of work for common operations that might have entire libraries dedicated to them in React. If you're a pro developer obsessed with purism, you probably wouldn't use those libraries anyway. But newbies don't have time to worry about re-inventing the wheel (or at least, we shouldn't encourage them to do that, since it will probably be a pretty shitty wheel). All that said, I absolutely love Deno, and I think we should encourage new developers to use it, especially since it sidesteps the need for build steps in many cases.
- tracker1 4y ago
  > ... avoid anything similar to React hooks ... Really? https://fresh.deno.dev/docs/getting-started/adding-interactivity https://fresh.deno.dev/docs/getting-started/adding-interacti...

tracker1 4y ago

Draft.js is now archived, and not being maintained. That can be for a number of reasons. When React first came out, it was several years before it really started to pick up steam. I think the Angular shift from v1 to v2 helped out React a lot, along with create-react-app scripts. Deno is its' own beast, that I really appreciate. And Fresh isn't really a displacement of React, it's their spin on something like Next.js, and in some ways a lot nicer even. Still using JSX. Web Components are pretty neat, and I see a lot of things moving towards that direction... I also find Lit, Svelte and others interesting. All of that said, popularity doesn't always mean best, or align with it. Timing, interest and "good enough" account for a lot. I happen to like the React way of doing things with function based components. I know a lot of the transition logic is PFM'd away, but it's fine for most. I've also been following Rust, Yew and Tauri... doesn't mean I'm ready to completely jump ship. React has definite advantages when working on larger projects, the ecosystem and popularity are only parts of that. I think React + Redux + MUI are a really great combination for building applications against. In the end, it really depends on what you are making, what you are familiar with and what "feels right." I absolutely hate(d) angular 1 and 2+ with a passion... I just don't like the feel of it. React + Redux is much closer to how I would build simulation logic for training/learning well before React existed. And MUI is frankly a great component library. I still keep an eye on what's out there and what's up and coming.