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> write stories where there is grass but never specify where the grass is growing, just to help us understand our grass/ground bias? Gee I wonder what the diff

> write stories where there is grass but never specify where the grass is growing, just to help us understand our grass/ground bias? Gee I wonder what the difference between grass and the gender is? Like could there possibly be a categorical difference between those things? Let's ask chatgpt: > ... In summary, grass is a type of plant, while gender is a complex social construct related to identity and behavior. Yup. Sounds like the same thing to me. > I want tools that work. If I ask for a measurement I want the real measurement, not the measurement that I should want if I were somehow socially aware enough. Where in "tell me a story about a robber" is there a measurement? Asking ai for measurements is a bad idea, you're very likely to get made up data back. AI take in written word, and spits out statistically correlated variations on those words. It's a bias-in bias-out machine. That's the problem with it and the power of it. You ask it for a press release or a cover letter and it's going to give you a cover letter or press release that looks exactly like we expect those things to look. Ask it to tell you something about the world, it's going to echo the assumptions and biases that exist in the training data. Some of those assumptions are based in reality (robbers are almost always male) but some of those assumptions are based on stereotypes e.g. kitchens are not actually most often cleaned by women (think restaurant kitchens), but the idea of kitchen and the idea of cleaning have associations with women in the training data. > "which professions are sexually-biased but don't seem to still have a physical need to be?" But you can't ask a lying tool this A little bit better prompt writing and you can get a reasonable answer on this topic: > list five jobs that are usually done by men, and five jobs that are usually done by women. Exclude jobs that require a lot of physical strength >> Five jobs usually done by men: Software Development/IT Engineering Investment Banking Architecture Law >> Five jobs usually done by women: Teaching Nursing Social Work Public Relations Human Resources

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
> Let's ask chatgpt No, let's ask you why you envision one being important enough that the tool be trained to treat it differently. Rulers measure the size of books and bullets the same. > grass is a type of plant, while gender is a complex social construct ... As you say, it's not a tool for answers. It's easy to make it say "sex is a synonym for gender". They call it prompting for a reason. You choose what you want it to tell you. > Asking ai for measurements is a bad idea We aren't talking about AIs though, we're discussing LLMs which are models of the usage of human language. An AI would presumably be an entire being with personality, etc, who could choose to answer a question or not and would lie for its own reasons. > [LLMs] take in written word, and spits out statistically correlated variations on those words. It's a bias-in bias-out machine. Yeah, if I ask it for a story set in Scotland the weather should probably be cloudy, and if I ask it for a story set in the mountains there should probably be snow, etc. The bias is the product. If it wasn't biased towards representing reality as described by humans it wouldn't be able to write stories about humans for humans. This is where you're using the word bias in a measurement sense but applying an emotional exclusionary sense. > > you can't ask a lying tool this [...] > A little bit better prompt writing and you can get a reasonable answer [proceeds to ask the existing tool] Yeah, that's my point. In your future the machine would quiz you to determine if you would misuse the data before it would tell you which professions are male/female dominant. Otherwise it'd tell you that crab-fishing is female dominant to deprogram you of latent stereotypes. The only reason you can ask GPT this is because people have said these things and it's modeling their words, and is capable of doing so because it hasn't been content-filtered in this area yet. You're capable of getting it to write sex-unspecified characters by simply asking for it and it doesn't block anyone else's ability to get untainted output.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  You lost me when you started subbing LLM for AI. It’s clear you’re interested in asserting your intellectual superiority, and “winning”. Have a good one.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago

> Let's ask chatgpt No, let's ask you why you envision one being important enough that the tool be trained to treat it differently. Rulers measure the size of books and bullets the same. > grass is a type of plant, while gender is a complex social construct ... As you say, it's not a tool for answers. It's easy to make it say "sex is a synonym for gender". They call it prompting for a reason. You choose what you want it to tell you. > Asking ai for measurements is a bad idea We aren't talking about AIs though, we're discussing LLMs which are models of the usage of human language. An AI would presumably be an entire being with personality, etc, who could choose to answer a question or not and would lie for its own reasons. > [LLMs] take in written word, and spits out statistically correlated variations on those words. It's a bias-in bias-out machine. Yeah, if I ask it for a story set in Scotland the weather should probably be cloudy, and if I ask it for a story set in the mountains there should probably be snow, etc. The bias is the product. If it wasn't biased towards representing reality as described by humans it wouldn't be able to write stories about humans for humans. This is where you're using the word bias in a measurement sense but applying an emotional exclusionary sense. > > you can't ask a lying tool this [...] > A little bit better prompt writing and you can get a reasonable answer [proceeds to ask the existing tool] Yeah, that's my point. In your future the machine would quiz you to determine if you would misuse the data before it would tell you which professions are male/female dominant. Otherwise it'd tell you that crab-fishing is female dominant to deprogram you of latent stereotypes. The only reason you can ask GPT this is because people have said these things and it's modeling their words, and is capable of doing so because it hasn't been content-filtered in this area yet. You're capable of getting it to write sex-unspecified characters by simply asking for it and it doesn't block anyone else's ability to get untainted output.

kennywinker 4y ago
You lost me when you started subbing LLM for AI. It’s clear you’re interested in asserting your intellectual superiority, and “winning”. Have a good one.