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I don't understand how modern airliners, with all their advanced high-tech complicated design, operating in such a tightly controlled regulatory environment, ca

I don't understand how modern airliners, with all their advanced high-tech complicated design, operating in such a tightly controlled regulatory environment, can still be having trouble with this. Crazy.

waynesonfire 4y ago
The air u breathe isn't a line item on the income statement.
- grepfru_it 4y ago
  Notice it became a problem when pilots began getting sick and it could not be hidden anymore. At the same time pilots are the most exposed, as they are airborne the most. You, the passenger, probably don’t fly enough for it to necessitate an immediate response
  - nawgz 4y ago
    I feel like you are implying conspiracy-like behavior, instead of recognizing the absurd rarity of the event: > "Over a two-year period, nearly 400 pilots, flight attendants and passengers reported receiving medical attention after these “fume events,” and four dozen pilots were described as impaired to the point of being unable to perform their duties, The Times found." This same two year period flew about 280 million "passengers", obviously not unique, but 400 / 280 000 000 ~= 1 in 15000 I don't think that this is about being covered up so much as obfuscated. That's a low-frequency event.
    - HPsquared 4y ago
      Low-level exposures will surely be MUCH more frequent than that. Harm caused by occupational exposure to hazardous chemicals is usually a chronic, cumulative, delayed onset type of thing.
      - nawgz 4y ago
        I don't mean to downplay; clearly and surely this should be investigated. But actually, I typo'd quite badly: the ratio is 1 in 700000, not 1 in 15000 (how did I make that mistake?) Anyways, I hope it's clear that a 1 in 700000 event is hard to detect.
    - sml156 4y ago
      If you told me that if I leave my house at 10:00 PM to-nite and I had a probability 1/15000 chance of dying or become incapacitated I would more than likely wait five or ten mins before leaving.
      - yuliyp 4y ago
        50-year-old males have a 1/75000 chance of dying on any given day. 70-year-old males have a 1/15000 chance of dying on any given day. See https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
      - nawgz 4y ago
        Edit: I do apologize, I typo'd. My ratio should have been 1 in 700k, not 1 in 15k > of dying or become incapacitated Sorry, I don't see any death in the logs, can you point me to recent aviation deaths that were caused by this? > or become incapacitated For instance, you have a ~1 in 366 chance of being in a car accident per 1000 miles driven. I think you should stay home more often, or learn more about probability.
miguelazo 4y ago
Deregulation, regulatory capture, consolidation, etc.
kube-system 4y ago
We really don't address air pollution anywhere if the levels are low enough that there aren't any severe acute effects. Aviation actually has exemptions that allow them to pollute more in the name of mechanical reliability, e.g. 100LL
yuliyp 4y ago
This shouldn't be that surprising. A jet engine that operates across temperature ranges of hundreds of degrees, with air shuffling through it at near the speed of sound and burning huge amounts of fuel every second may occasionally have something break every few thousand hours. Mechanical components (including oil tubes and cylinders) can fail.

waynesonfire 4y ago

The air u breathe isn't a line item on the income statement.

grepfru_it 4y ago
Notice it became a problem when pilots began getting sick and it could not be hidden anymore. At the same time pilots are the most exposed, as they are airborne the most. You, the passenger, probably don’t fly enough for it to necessitate an immediate response
- nawgz 4y ago
  I feel like you are implying conspiracy-like behavior, instead of recognizing the absurd rarity of the event: > "Over a two-year period, nearly 400 pilots, flight attendants and passengers reported receiving medical attention after these “fume events,” and four dozen pilots were described as impaired to the point of being unable to perform their duties, The Times found." This same two year period flew about 280 million "passengers", obviously not unique, but 400 / 280 000 000 ~= 1 in 15000 I don't think that this is about being covered up so much as obfuscated. That's a low-frequency event.
  - HPsquared 4y ago
    Low-level exposures will surely be MUCH more frequent than that. Harm caused by occupational exposure to hazardous chemicals is usually a chronic, cumulative, delayed onset type of thing.
    - nawgz 4y ago
      I don't mean to downplay; clearly and surely this should be investigated. But actually, I typo'd quite badly: the ratio is 1 in 700000, not 1 in 15000 (how did I make that mistake?) Anyways, I hope it's clear that a 1 in 700000 event is hard to detect.
  - sml156 4y ago
    If you told me that if I leave my house at 10:00 PM to-nite and I had a probability 1/15000 chance of dying or become incapacitated I would more than likely wait five or ten mins before leaving.
    - yuliyp 4y ago
      50-year-old males have a 1/75000 chance of dying on any given day. 70-year-old males have a 1/15000 chance of dying on any given day. See https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
    - nawgz 4y ago
      Edit: I do apologize, I typo'd. My ratio should have been 1 in 700k, not 1 in 15k > of dying or become incapacitated Sorry, I don't see any death in the logs, can you point me to recent aviation deaths that were caused by this? > or become incapacitated For instance, you have a ~1 in 366 chance of being in a car accident per 1000 miles driven. I think you should stay home more often, or learn more about probability.

miguelazo 4y ago

Deregulation, regulatory capture, consolidation, etc.

kube-system 4y ago

We really don't address air pollution anywhere if the levels are low enough that there aren't any severe acute effects. Aviation actually has exemptions that allow them to pollute more in the name of mechanical reliability, e.g. 100LL

yuliyp 4y ago

This shouldn't be that surprising. A jet engine that operates across temperature ranges of hundreds of degrees, with air shuffling through it at near the speed of sound and burning huge amounts of fuel every second may occasionally have something break every few thousand hours. Mechanical components (including oil tubes and cylinders) can fail.