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I'm not worried about AI taking over the world and more than I'm worried about a nuclear weapon unilaterally declaring itself president for life. What I am ext

I'm not worried about AI taking over the world and more than I'm worried about a nuclear weapon unilaterally declaring itself president for life. What I am extremely worried about is that generative AI will pollute the information environment so completely that society will cease to function effectively. We need a healthy information environment—widespread access to true information—so that we can have the consensus that every single social system implicitly relies on to function. Shared ground truth is what allows individuals to coordinate together to build things bigger than they can create on their own. Generative AI can destroy that just like dumping chemicals kills a lake and puts every fisherman on it out of work.

falcolas 4y ago
> generative AI will pollute the information environment so completely that society will cease to function effectively. In a microcosm, this has already occurred. Specifically, Clarkesworld's shutdown due to spam from joint AI + Human spam. There's virtually no reason it won't continue, not when the output of an AI and a human combined has the potential to earn either attention or money for the human.
outworlder 4y ago
> What I am extremely worried about is that generative AI will pollute the information environment so completely that society will cease to function effectively. We are not functioning correctly already - given the polarization we see today, specially with politics. Most people are completely misinformed even on basic concepts that used to be taught at schools. Today this is being accomplished by a small group of individuals, amplified by bots (and then, once an idea spreads sufficiently, it's self-sustaining). AI will make it way, way worse, as you correctly point out. Now, if the lake is poisoned too much, people will avoid it. Maybe it will destroy a bunch of communication channels, such as social networks.
- munificent 4y ago
  > Now, if the lake is poisoned too much, people will avoid it. The risk is that there are no other lakes and we are dependent on its fish to survive.
gspencley 4y ago
Every few years there are advancements in ML and people freak out. Remember deep fakes? We had been dealing with doctored still images a la Photoshop for years already. Everyone knew images could be doctored and so we started to trust them less as a reliable source of information when it mattered. We'll do the same with video (and already did to an extent since manipulation through editing was already possible). What is the worst that can possibly happen as a result of AI being able to generate text that is indistinguishable from something a human wrote? Or that a "chat bot" can answer questions with more relevance and detail (correct or made up) ? That we will have more garbage information out there? I think humans already did a great job of making that a problem already. AI has the ability to produce more of it, but it's just pouring gasoline on a fire that was already blazing and that we already had to figure out how to deal with. Moral of the story: when it matters, check the source. Why does AI suddenly make this "new" ? For what it's worth, I'm not riding the hype train. I am neither excited about ChatGPT nor scared of it. It's just another day, just another tool, just another marketing hype train. My personal opinion on the matter is just "meh."
- lamontcg 4y ago
  There's a continuum of explosives from fireworks to nuclear weapons. There's a reason I don't worry too much about my own safety from a few of the former going off on my block. Degrees of scale do matter.
  - gspencley 4y ago
    Sure, but a lot of people are afraid of fireworks and would like to ban those, too. Perspective is all I'm trying to offer.
- munificent 4y ago
  > Everyone knew images could be doctored and so we started to trust them less as a reliable source of information when it mattered. We'll do the same with video (and already did to an extent since manipulation through editing was already possible). I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. If by "everyone", you mean your tech savvy bubble of friends that are good at critical reasoning and are well aware of what kinds of media can be easily spoofed, sure. But for every one of you, there are a thousand people who don't know anything about that and just see doctored propaganda photos (and now video and audio) on social media and believe it to be true. And those folks outvote you 1000 to 1, so even if you know the truth, you are forced to live in a world shaped by people that are already being mass manipulated. > What is the worst that can possibly happen as a result of AI being able to generate text that is indistinguishable from something a human wrote? Or that a "chat bot" can answer questions with more relevance and detail (correct or made up)? People have been catching birds for millenia. What's the worst that can happen as a result of rifles becoming cheaper and more accurate? Oh, right, the answer is the extinction of over 400 bird species including more than two-thirds of all flightless bird species. People have been catching fish for millenia. What's the worst that can possibly happen as a result of trawlers being able to catch them more efficiently? Oh, right, the answer is the complete collapse of biological ecosystems. People have been burning biologically derived oil for millenia. What's the worst that can possible happen as a result of machines that burn it to produce energy? Oh, right, massive pollution leading to millions of deaths and global climate change.
asdff 4y ago
Honestly, what is old is new again. The information environment was polluted from the moment there ever was an information environment. Political activists 100 years ago weren't writing in the newspaper, they were publishing their own in secret under penalty of death sometimes. The information available to the masses has always been controlled, and used for manipulation firstly, information as a happy side effect only if its beneficial to your intents. There is no shot of ever having an accessible source of information that doesn't get polluted or coopted by various interests. The prizes offered from mass attention are just too great to ever expect bad faith operators to not continuously strive for control of mass media.
mrshadowgoose 4y ago
> I'm not worried about AI taking over the world and more than I'm worried about a nuclear weapon unilaterally declaring itself president for life. I am not at all worried about AI taking over the world. However, I am tremendously worried about a single actor achieving AGI with enough of a lead over others, and then using AGI to take over the world to everyone else's detriment. Once AGI is developed, collective and speed superintelligences are a nearly-instant step away, as long as one already has the requisite hardware infrastructure. To adapt your nuclear weapon analogy, had the United States decided to go full-evil in 1945, they could have forcibly stopped all other nuclear development activity and exerted full control over the world. Permanently. Nuclear weapons can't conquer, but the people who control them certainly can decide to. If we really wanted to, we already have the cryptographic tools to deal with disinformation. It's not the unsolvable problem everyone likes to whine about.
MikusR 4y ago
>What I am extremely worried about is that generative AI will pollute the information environment so completely that society will cease to function effectively. That already happened many years ago. No AI needed.

falcolas 4y ago

> generative AI will pollute the information environment so completely that society will cease to function effectively. In a microcosm, this has already occurred. Specifically, Clarkesworld's shutdown due to spam from joint AI + Human spam. There's virtually no reason it won't continue, not when the output of an AI and a human combined has the potential to earn either attention or money for the human.

outworlder 4y ago

> What I am extremely worried about is that generative AI will pollute the information environment so completely that society will cease to function effectively. We are not functioning correctly already - given the polarization we see today, specially with politics. Most people are completely misinformed even on basic concepts that used to be taught at schools. Today this is being accomplished by a small group of individuals, amplified by bots (and then, once an idea spreads sufficiently, it's self-sustaining). AI will make it way, way worse, as you correctly point out. Now, if the lake is poisoned too much, people will avoid it. Maybe it will destroy a bunch of communication channels, such as social networks.

munificent 4y ago
> Now, if the lake is poisoned too much, people will avoid it. The risk is that there are no other lakes and we are dependent on its fish to survive.

gspencley 4y ago

Every few years there are advancements in ML and people freak out. Remember deep fakes? We had been dealing with doctored still images a la Photoshop for years already. Everyone knew images could be doctored and so we started to trust them less as a reliable source of information when it mattered. We'll do the same with video (and already did to an extent since manipulation through editing was already possible). What is the worst that can possibly happen as a result of AI being able to generate text that is indistinguishable from something a human wrote? Or that a "chat bot" can answer questions with more relevance and detail (correct or made up) ? That we will have more garbage information out there? I think humans already did a great job of making that a problem already. AI has the ability to produce more of it, but it's just pouring gasoline on a fire that was already blazing and that we already had to figure out how to deal with. Moral of the story: when it matters, check the source. Why does AI suddenly make this "new" ? For what it's worth, I'm not riding the hype train. I am neither excited about ChatGPT nor scared of it. It's just another day, just another tool, just another marketing hype train. My personal opinion on the matter is just "meh."

lamontcg 4y ago
There's a continuum of explosives from fireworks to nuclear weapons. There's a reason I don't worry too much about my own safety from a few of the former going off on my block. Degrees of scale do matter.
- gspencley 4y ago
  Sure, but a lot of people are afraid of fireworks and would like to ban those, too. Perspective is all I'm trying to offer.
munificent 4y ago
> Everyone knew images could be doctored and so we started to trust them less as a reliable source of information when it mattered. We'll do the same with video (and already did to an extent since manipulation through editing was already possible). I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. If by "everyone", you mean your tech savvy bubble of friends that are good at critical reasoning and are well aware of what kinds of media can be easily spoofed, sure. But for every one of you, there are a thousand people who don't know anything about that and just see doctored propaganda photos (and now video and audio) on social media and believe it to be true. And those folks outvote you 1000 to 1, so even if you know the truth, you are forced to live in a world shaped by people that are already being mass manipulated. > What is the worst that can possibly happen as a result of AI being able to generate text that is indistinguishable from something a human wrote? Or that a "chat bot" can answer questions with more relevance and detail (correct or made up)? People have been catching birds for millenia. What's the worst that can happen as a result of rifles becoming cheaper and more accurate? Oh, right, the answer is the extinction of over 400 bird species including more than two-thirds of all flightless bird species. People have been catching fish for millenia. What's the worst that can possibly happen as a result of trawlers being able to catch them more efficiently? Oh, right, the answer is the complete collapse of biological ecosystems. People have been burning biologically derived oil for millenia. What's the worst that can possible happen as a result of machines that burn it to produce energy? Oh, right, massive pollution leading to millions of deaths and global climate change.

asdff 4y ago

Honestly, what is old is new again. The information environment was polluted from the moment there ever was an information environment. Political activists 100 years ago weren't writing in the newspaper, they were publishing their own in secret under penalty of death sometimes. The information available to the masses has always been controlled, and used for manipulation firstly, information as a happy side effect only if its beneficial to your intents. There is no shot of ever having an accessible source of information that doesn't get polluted or coopted by various interests. The prizes offered from mass attention are just too great to ever expect bad faith operators to not continuously strive for control of mass media.

mrshadowgoose 4y ago

> I'm not worried about AI taking over the world and more than I'm worried about a nuclear weapon unilaterally declaring itself president for life. I am not at all worried about AI taking over the world. However, I am tremendously worried about a single actor achieving AGI with enough of a lead over others, and then using AGI to take over the world to everyone else's detriment. Once AGI is developed, collective and speed superintelligences are a nearly-instant step away, as long as one already has the requisite hardware infrastructure. To adapt your nuclear weapon analogy, had the United States decided to go full-evil in 1945, they could have forcibly stopped all other nuclear development activity and exerted full control over the world. Permanently. Nuclear weapons can't conquer, but the people who control them certainly can decide to. If we really wanted to, we already have the cryptographic tools to deal with disinformation. It's not the unsolvable problem everyone likes to whine about.

MikusR 4y ago

>What I am extremely worried about is that generative AI will pollute the information environment so completely that society will cease to function effectively. That already happened many years ago. No AI needed.